Updated beta version of Bet Angel v1.56.0 - Now on general release

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Dallas
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dropss81 wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:57 pm
Thank You for these New features.. A video how this new features can be used... briefly.... on BA Academy videos....
Good Luck for us in Trading..
Some examples already on the forum with more on the way while the videos are finished off
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=22648
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=22504
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=22655
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=21363
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dropss81
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Thank You


Sorry
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Tuco
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Jukebox wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:16 pm
Nice work - lots of very useful enhancements. Looks like there's something for everyone in there - very welcome when there is so much gloom around.
...nothing of interest to me in this v1.56.0.b1 update - oh well, maybe next time some of my suggestions will be re-considered/incorporated :(
Jukebox
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Tuco wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:38 pm
Jukebox wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:16 pm
Nice work - lots of very useful enhancements. Looks like there's something for everyone in there - very welcome when there is so much gloom around.
...nothing of interest to me in this v1.56.0.b1 update - oh well, maybe next time some of my suggestions will be re-considered/incorporated :(
I seem to remember you wanted to be able to do some auto dutching/bookmaking - now with up to 5 Guardian nominees this should be realistic.
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Tuco
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Jukebox wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:52 pm
Tuco wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:38 pm
Jukebox wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:16 pm
Nice work - lots of very useful enhancements. Looks like there's something for everyone in there - very welcome when there is so much gloom around.
...nothing of interest to me in this v1.56.0.b1 update - oh well, maybe next time some of my suggestions will be re-considered/incorporated :(
I seem to remember you wanted to be able to do some auto dutching/bookmaking - now with up to 5 Guardian nominees this should be realistic.
...yes, I wanted the 'Auto Bet' check box on the 'Dutching' and 'Bookmaking' tabs to re-arm itself automatically and then continue to fire when the user set criteria was met rather than fire just once and need to be user re-armed manually before it could fire again.

I did a lot of bookmaking in the Next US President market and began with £500 stakes which I quickly increased to £5,000 stakes each time the 'Auto Bet' fired - the danger with using larger stakes is that you can get caught short if only part of one side gets matched and the market odds then move away from you.

Once the first 'Auto Bet' is fired it should automatically re-arm (ideally a user set number of times with the option of a re-arm delay, although I would typically use '0' seconds some might not) and then if the market book percentages still meet your set criteria the Auto Bet should re-fire and keep doing so until the criteria is no longer met.

There were a few other suggestions that I'll re-suggest that I'm sure most if not all would find useful.

On the One-click screen there is currently a column that is 'Trade profit' (trade closure P & L) but what that offers is INDIVIDUAL selections to be closed at the best available current odds and when the green box is checked ALL SELECTIONS to be greened at the best available current odds. An update I'd really like is two separate Trade Closure columns available for display in separate columns - one at best available current price and one at best available reverse price, each with a drop-down offering the following four closure options:

Trade Profit - Current Odds: (to replace the current 'Trade profit' (trade closure P & L) column)
1) 'close' (individual selection at best available current odds)
2) 'close all' (selections at best available current odds)
3) 'green' (individual selection at best available current odds)
4) 'green all' (selections at best available current odds)

Trade Profit - Reverse Odds:
1) 'close' (individual selection at best available reverse odds)
2) 'close all' (selections at best available reverse odds)
3) 'green' (individual selection at best available reverse odds)
4) 'green all' (selections at best available reverse odds)

You can pretty easily do all of the above on the ladder screen, but in markets where there are more than 18 selections (a previous suggestion of mine that was incorportated into the ladder as were the the 3 possible rows and even earlier 12 ladder selection options) it's really necessary in-play to be using the one-click screen.

It should only take a few minutes to create each of the above columns with the four options as all of the information is readily available - change the Green check box for a drop-down box to choose from the four options, then duplicate the current odds column column and change for reverse market prices.
Bet Angel
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Tuco wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:18 pm

Trade Profit - Current Odds: (to replace the current 'Trade profit' (trade closure P & L) column)
1) 'close' (individual selection at best available current odds)
2) 'close all' (selections at best available current odds)
3) 'green' (individual selection at best available current odds)
4) 'green all' (selections at best available current odds)

Trade Profit - Reverse Odds:
1) 'close' (individual selection at best available reverse odds)
2) 'close all' (selections at best available reverse odds)
3) 'green' (individual selection at best available reverse odds)
4) 'green all' (selections at best available reverse odds)
That suggestion was discussed in a review meeting some time ago, but there was a valid concern that having so many greening options would be confusing to the majority of users. Bet Angel is packed with features but risks overwhelming new users, so we try to keep the core product as targeted as possible. The suggestion hadn't gained much support from other customers and could be implemented with custom columns / automation. Dallas has a very detailed example in this thread viewtopic.php?f=61&t=21159 that can be adapted as required.

Of course, with this new version you have the advantage of being able to run the Automation that sets all the Stored Values in the Automation Rules 2 column in Guardian, so it won't even prevent the execution of a regular set of trading rules in the main column. Perhaps you could have a keyboard shortcut that applies the greening calculation rules to every market in Guardian, and have the custom columns as part of your default one-click design, so there would be very little overhead in getting setup each trading session.

We consider every suggestion raised to us, but some have to be discarded due to complexity, lack of support or mismatch with the strategic direction of the product.
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Tuco
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Thanks for your reply BA - of course the above columns could be 'Trade Closure' and 'Trade Greening' with the four options at current and reverse odds for both individuals selections and all selections rather than the way I've suggested (which I happen to prefer) if that made it easier to understand as follows:

Trade Closure:
1) 'close current' (individual selection at best available current odds)
2) 'close all current' (all selections at best available current odds)
3) 'close reverse' (individual selection at best available reverse odds)
4) 'close all reverse' (all selections at best available reverse odds)

Trade Greening:
1) 'green current' (individual selection at best available current odds)
2) 'green all current' (all selections at best available current odds)
3) 'green reverse' (individual selection at best available reverse odds)
4) 'green all reverse' (all selections at best available reverse odds)

Learning when, how and at what odds to close positions is the greatest trading skill there is bar none - these options simply allow more choices to achieve that on the one-click screen when these are already available on the ladder screen so it's also to correct a screen features imbalance.

It would be a shame if the development of BA was suppressed just in case a few new users were in some way confused with the closure options on the one-click screen which are easily explained. Anyone confused can choose to have the Trade Profit closure column not displayed on their one-click screen.

The present Trade Profit screen offers either:
1) 'close' (individual selection at best available current odds) or
2) 'green' (which is actually green all selections at best available current odds)

I'm sure that there are many more confusing features such as stored prices and automation that could more easily trip-up the unwary. I'd be surprised if there are any BA users that haven't made an error of some sort in either backing/laying the wrong selection or in the wrong market or on the wrong side (lay rather than back or vice-versa) etc.

[One other new feature I'd like to request is to be able to dis-arm the very dangerous 'Close and green up all trades for this predicted profit' button to the right of the greening calculation on the ladder screen]

Any thoughts about automatically re-arming the 'Auto Bet' check box on the Dutching and Bookmaking tabs?

...anyway, just my thoughts as a full-time professional trader (who doesn't trade horses or dogs) :)
Last edited by Tuco on Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bet Angel
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Tuco wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:56 pm
Any thoughts about automatically re-arming the Auto Bet check box on the Dutching and Bookmaking tabs?
Happy to look into it if it gets enough support from others. Have you looked into creating this as a Servant, staking by book%? Depending on how you are using the screens, the Servant may be able to achieve the same and has all the automatic rearming a fixed number of times & frequency built-in to the rules editor.
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Tuco
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Bet Angel wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:29 pm
Have you looked into creating this as a Servant, staking by book%? Depending on how you are using the screens, the Servant may be able to achieve the same and has all the automatic rearming a fixed number of times & frequency built-in to the rules editor.
...not really no, but I will do.

[It should be easy enough to add an automatic re-arming check-box / frequency / re-arm delay into the 'Automation' tab of the BetAngel Settings]
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Tuco
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Ladder
•The In-play Delay for the market has been added as an Additional Information item

I like this and I like the 'additional information' bar, though for the above it takes a lot of screen real estate up across every selection. Just wonder whether this fixed information could be added to the green In-play box or just nearby as it doesn't need repeating across every market selection?

Also, could the bar be made to allow the user to enter their own info for each selection, ie additional info user notes?

[I've previously asked for a similar column allowing users to enter alpha-numeric notes to be added to each selection on the one-click screen - this would be very useful in ordering selections by squad number for instance. Sometimes you know the shirt number of a player doing something before you know his/her name.]
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Tuco
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re: Trade Profit Closure Column Options
Bet Angel wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:29 pm
That suggestion was discussed in a review meeting some time ago, but there was a valid concern that having so many greening options would be confusing to the majority of users. The suggestion hadn't gained much support from other customers
I agree - it may have been lost in the suggestions area and not seen, but if enough people now think "yes I like that idea, let's also ask for it" (nudge nudge, wink wink) might you be open to reconsider? (as two of the proposed eight trade closure options are already available on the one-click screen Trade Profit column - this suggestion simply completes the option choices already available on the ladder screen.)
Last edited by Tuco on Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anbell
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Bet Angel wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:52 pm
jimibt wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:13 pm
yeah - i thought as much. I'll prepare a new suggestion to request a BSP Limit Order, unless it's a problematic rule??
We haven't looked at them in detail for years, but some time ago there were issues because they behaved differently to other bets. Something to do with cancellation, modification and retrieval as unmatched bets. We'd have to experiment with them again if there was enough interest.
There's very much interest in SP Limit.

They cant be cancelled or modified, or even unmatched - but that's no problem. They are what they are.
jamesg46
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While we are in Beta & suggestions have been made can we please have Age/Weight made available for the additional information area... it's a slight inconvenience flicking between Ladder & One Click but one that bugs me having to make an effort with a piece of software that is so effortless.
jamesg46
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& while I'm at it, please stick Jockey Claim in there too, along with access to Peter's bank account... thank you :D
Bet Angel
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Tuco wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:09 pm
I agree - it may have been lost in the suggestions area and not seen, but if enough people now think "yes I like that idea, let's also ask for it" (nudge nudge, wink wink) might you be open to reconsider?
As we mentioned before, anything that gets enough support will be considered. However this thread is supposed to be about the new version, any bugs found, and clarification about its features. As such, we don't want this thread filling up with +1s for new features rather than staying on topic. Perhaps you could edit your posts and link back to your original threads in the suggestions section and anyone that wishes to support them can do so on those threads. Don't worry the popular threads will not be missed by us when planning future versions.

From a cost/benefit point of view, it's much better that we put effort into customisation points (such as the new configurable markets list in Guardian) rather than enhance the more static areas of the screens. Once a customisation point exists, new features can be added more easily and customers can choose to use them or not. The essence of Custom columns, Additional Info areas, Stored Values, Servants, and Automation is that the total becomes more than the sum of its parts as everything meshes together to solve hundreds of different problems. It's impossible to scale in that way when modifying static screens.

There was a suggestion early in this thread to be able to show the last word from the market name (as a custom column item in Guardian) rather than the whole suffix as that would help with market differentiation. As just an extra item in a picklist and a small amount of implementation to split the display string, that's a perfect example of a small cost addition that expands on an existing customisation item (the market information) and could be implemented during a bug fix build.

Something like allowing a custom column to be editable text so that it can be sorted is also a feature enhancement at a customisation point but has complications on where the information is stored. e.g. is the info retained when switching back & forth between markets, is it retained if you close and restart Bet Angel? If it was attached to a horse's name, should it be shown next time that horse runs in a different race? etc etc. A solution that is suitable for one, will not be suitable for all, so it needs to be implemented as a well designed/considered feature. It becomes a significant piece of work with costs to match and therefore needs a decent amount of support from the customer base for it to happen or alternatively it needs to be strategically significant as a stepping stone towards other important features.

The markets list enhancement itself became a stepping stone feature as it allowed us to offer support for multiple Automation Rules per market and multiple Nominated Selections without ruining the display for the customers that didn't require those features. It's all a balance of cost & benefit.
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