US Presidential Election 2024

Betfair trading & Punting on politics. Be aware there is a lot of off topic discussion in this group centred on Political views.
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Archery1969
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Derek27 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:19 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:44 pm
Mr Donald Trump arrived at the New York attorney general's office on Wednesday to answer questions relating to his family's business practices. The former president invoked the Fifth Amendment, which protects people from being compelled to be a witness against themselves in a criminal case.
Surely the next step is to start criminal proceedings against him. People have been convicted with much less evidence against them. The powers that be have spent over a year going through video footage of Trump ordering an army of thugs into Capitol Hill and they don't have enough to charge him. :roll:
They probably do but going after a former president is a dilemma for the current administration and Justice department. What do they do if he found guilty as unlikely anyone would want a former president in jail. He would almost certainly be pardoned even though they wouldn’t want too.

Plus you can end up making him and his supporters unite against the rule of law. Nobody wants hundreds of thousands or even millions with a call to arms against society.

It’s a big problem for USA to deal with how they would like too.
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Derek27
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Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:26 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:19 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:44 pm
Mr Donald Trump arrived at the New York attorney general's office on Wednesday to answer questions relating to his family's business practices. The former president invoked the Fifth Amendment, which protects people from being compelled to be a witness against themselves in a criminal case.
Surely the next step is to start criminal proceedings against him. People have been convicted with much less evidence against them. The powers that be have spent over a year going through video footage of Trump ordering an army of thugs into Capitol Hill and they don't have enough to charge him. :roll:
What do they do if he found guilty as unlikely anyone would want a former president in jail.
I'd have to disagree with that. Millions would like to see him banged up, including me. And I'm not even in the US!

The US used to be a model democracy with its carefully worded constitution and 'checks and balances'. Allowing Trump to escape justice, either because he was a president or through popular vote makes a mockery of the US constitution. The Kray twins would never have gone to prison over here if the decision was down to popular vote.
Archery1969
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Derek27 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:58 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:26 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:19 pm


Surely the next step is to start criminal proceedings against him. People have been convicted with much less evidence against them. The powers that be have spent over a year going through video footage of Trump ordering an army of thugs into Capitol Hill and they don't have enough to charge him. :roll:
What do they do if he found guilty as unlikely anyone would want a former president in jail.
I'd have to disagree with that. Millions would like to see him banged up, including me. And I'm not even in the US!

The US used to be a model democracy with its carefully worded constitution and 'checks and balances'. Allowing Trump to escape justice, either because he was a president or through popular vote makes a mockery of the US constitution. The Kray twins would never have gone to prison over here if the decision was down to popular vote.
I not disagreeing with you Derek but the problem over there is allot of people have guns and explosives. There are also millions who would not want him in Jail including most of the Repulican party as it would cause them no end of grief on the ground.

Even if you got your wish and he got 20 years in jail. The secret service have to protect former presidents guilty or not, how would that work in general population with dunker and the clan. Plus as soon as a Republican president was elected he would pardon him anyway, so, no way he spends more than say 4 years in a cell. I am 100% certain a Democrate president will pardon him too. Can't have former presidents looked up regardless of what party they are from.

Like i said before, the most one could hope for his house arrest for 10 years or so. Really cant see any jail time.

Krays - I don't think they were that well liked outside of London and the home counties unless someone can prove me wrong ?
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Derek27
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Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:27 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:58 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:26 pm

What do they do if he found guilty as unlikely anyone would want a former president in jail.
I'd have to disagree with that. Millions would like to see him banged up, including me. And I'm not even in the US!

The US used to be a model democracy with its carefully worded constitution and 'checks and balances'. Allowing Trump to escape justice, either because he was a president or through popular vote makes a mockery of the US constitution. The Kray twins would never have gone to prison over here if the decision was down to popular vote.
I not disagreeing with you Derek but the problem over there is allot of people have guns and explosives. There are also millions who would not want him in Jail including most of the Repulican party as it would cause them no end of grief on the ground.

Even if you got your wish and he got 20 years in jail. The secret service have to protect former presidents guilty or not, how would that work in general population with dunker and the clan. Plus as soon as a Republican president was elected he would pardon him anyway, so, no way he spends more than say 4 years in a cell. I am 100% certain a Democrate president will pardon him too. Can't have former presidents looked up regardless of what party they are from.

Like i said before, the most one could hope for his house arrest for 10 years or so. Really cant see any jail time.

Krays - I don't think they were that well liked outside of London and the home counties unless someone can prove me wrong ?
If he was impeached I believe he'd lose his security detail. Don't know why going to prison is any different but his security could stand outside his prison cell and accompany him into the exercise yard. :D

America needs to end this crap about pardons and accept that if you commit a crime you get punished for it, regardless of who you are. You can't allow people to escape justice just because a lot of people don't like it and have guns. It's not much better than a civil war!
Archery1969
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Derek27 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:42 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:27 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:58 pm


I'd have to disagree with that. Millions would like to see him banged up, including me. And I'm not even in the US!

The US used to be a model democracy with its carefully worded constitution and 'checks and balances'. Allowing Trump to escape justice, either because he was a president or through popular vote makes a mockery of the US constitution. The Kray twins would never have gone to prison over here if the decision was down to popular vote.
I not disagreeing with you Derek but the problem over there is allot of people have guns and explosives. There are also millions who would not want him in Jail including most of the Repulican party as it would cause them no end of grief on the ground.

Even if you got your wish and he got 20 years in jail. The secret service have to protect former presidents guilty or not, how would that work in general population with dunker and the clan. Plus as soon as a Republican president was elected he would pardon him anyway, so, no way he spends more than say 4 years in a cell. I am 100% certain a Democrate president will pardon him too. Can't have former presidents looked up regardless of what party they are from.

Like i said before, the most one could hope for his house arrest for 10 years or so. Really cant see any jail time.

Krays - I don't think they were that well liked outside of London and the home counties unless someone can prove me wrong ?
If he was impeached I believe he'd lose his security detail. Don't know why going to prison is any different but his security could stand outside his prison cell and accompany him into the exercise yard. :D

America needs to end this crap about pardons and accept that if you commit a crime you get punished for it, regardless of who you are. You can't allow people to escape justice just because a lot of people don't like it and have guns. It's not much better than a civil war!
Escaping Justice - You mean the wife of a CIA officer who killed a boy outside an RAF base and will never stand trial and/or do prison time or Prince Andrew who is probably more guilty than Gary Glitter yet will never stand trial and/or do prison time ?

The USA has always given a good speech about 'Nobody is above the law' yet far more black people than white goto Jail and far more have been executed over the years even taking into account population density.

And with Trump dont forget the Supreme Court is very conservative and highly likely to quash any guilty verdict if appealed. Didn't Trump help put 3 of them there ?
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Derek27
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Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:00 pm
Didn't Trump help put 3 of them there ?
Yes, one of them was accused of rape. Instead of being tried in a criminal court as most rapists do to see if they can avoid prison, he appeared in a live TV drama to decide whether he can get a job as a Supreme Court judge for life!

Justice is pretty shambolic on both sides of the Atlantic!
Archery1969
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Derek27 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:10 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:00 pm
Didn't Trump help put 3 of them there ?
Yes, one of them was accused of rape. Instead of being tried in a criminal court as most rapists do to see if they can avoid prison, he appeared in a live TV drama to decide whether he can get a job as a Supreme Court judge for life!

Justice is pretty shambolic on both sides of the Atlantic!
We finally agree on something Derek! :D
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Derek27
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Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:12 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:10 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:00 pm
Didn't Trump help put 3 of them there ?
Yes, one of them was accused of rape. Instead of being tried in a criminal court as most rapists do to see if they can avoid prison, he appeared in a live TV drama to decide whether he can get a job as a Supreme Court judge for life!

Justice is pretty shambolic on both sides of the Atlantic!
We finally agree on something Derek! :D
We agreed that Liz Truss is a bit of alright, but that hasn't lasted long. I now see her as Margaret Thatcher with a different wig. :)
Archery1969
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Derek27 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:20 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:12 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:10 pm


Yes, one of them was accused of rape. Instead of being tried in a criminal court as most rapists do to see if they can avoid prison, he appeared in a live TV drama to decide whether he can get a job as a Supreme Court judge for life!

Justice is pretty shambolic on both sides of the Atlantic!
We finally agree on something Derek! :D
We agreed that Liz Truss is a bit of alright, but that hasn't lasted long. I now see her as Margaret Thatcher with a different wig. :)
🤣
Archery1969
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Derek, there was an interesting article written recently by David Freedman who probably hates Trump more than you do. :D

But he probably speaks allot of truth:

Regardless of how the evidence piles up, U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland has compelling reasons to direct Department of Justice prosecutors to leave Trump alone. For one, time is not on the DOJ's side. Under the best of conditions, moving a high-profile government prosecution from initial indictment to a jury verdict can take two or more years. Trump's hypothetical defense team would almost certainly be able to clog the gears with motion after motion to exclude evidence, block testimony and outright dismiss the case, each of which would then work their way through the system in appeal, in many cases up to the Supreme Court.

Meanwhile, Republicans seem headed to take partial, and perhaps full, control of Congress, and Trump is a contender for regaining the presidency in 2024. If Trump were re-elected, a prosecution wouldn't survive two minutes into his second term. Trump would show Garland to the door and perhaps seal the deal with a presidential self-pardon. "For all we know a DOJ prosecution announcement is coming, but a lot of people are looking at political calendars and getting worried," says Jon Michaels, a UCLA law professor who specializes in constitutional law and presidential power.

After it became crystal clear in the weeks after January 6 that Republican voters and most Republicans in Congress were standing firm behind Trump, McConnell and McCarthy swung back to supporting him. McConnell has said that he would support Trump if he becomes the party's 2024 candidate for president. McCarthy now denies he ever bashed Trump in private after January 6, despite a recording that surfaced of him doing exactly that.

With McConnell and McCarthy having surrendered to the Trump-boosting Republican majority, the likely Republican response to a Trump prosecution will be scorched-earth retaliation against Democratic leaders. Many Trump loyalists have already signaled their eagerness to take advantage of a widely expected midterm election victory that would give them control of the House in 2023 to mire Democrats in investigations and inquiries.

But for one minute lets assume Trump is charged and convicted of one or more crimes...

If the Supreme Court were to let a conviction stand, Trump might yet have another ace up his sleeve: A claim that he had secretly pardoned himself at the end of his presidency. As it turns out, there's no formal requirement that presidential pardons be recorded in any particular way, notes Margaret Love, the former U.S. pardon attorney under George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton, and now an attorney specializing in pardon law. George Washington verbally communicated most of his pardons, and George Bush's 1992 pardons of the players in the Iran-Contra affair were never formally documented, notes Love.

As long as Trump can offer some proof that he granted it—perhaps calling on one or more cronies to swear they heard him say it—that it specified what crimes the pardon was for and that he didn't issue it in advance of committing the crimes, he might conceivably be covered. "The president could yell a pardon into the street, or scribble it on a cocktail napkin, and it's perfectly good," says Love.
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Derek27
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Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:21 pm
Derek, there was an interesting article written recently by David Freedman who probably hates Trump more than you do. :D

But he probably speaks allot of truth:
Yeah, that makes sense. Let's face it, a 16-year-old in the US who's charged with shoplifting only needs a judge who's old enough to die before he does, for the case to collapse. :lol:

If Trump uses his presidential pardon excuse, any court action will take beyond his lifetime, but at least he'll die in court. They just need to keep the legal pressure on him until his death. Make his life as miserable as possible. :D
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Derek27
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Archery1969 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:44 pm
Mr Donald Trump arrived at the New York attorney general's office on Wednesday to answer questions relating to his family's business practices. The former president invoked the Fifth Amendment, which protects people from being compelled to be a witness against themselves in a criminal case.
Sky News just played a compilation of all the times Trump said, the 5th amendment is for losers, people who have something to hide, if you're innocent why do you need the 5th amendment, etc. :D
Archery1969
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Not long Derek and we will find out what the FBI were looking for and what they took away. Details of the warrant will be revealed by 25th August.
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Naffman
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Archery1969 wrote:
Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:37 pm
Not long Derek and we will find out what the FBI were looking for and what they took away. Details of the warrant will be revealed by 25th August.
Trump would’ve never agreed to release the search warrant if Garland hadn’t have forced the issue, I think him and his allies have already floated the idea that the evidence has been planted so I guess if it’s that bad that will be the go to.
Trader Pat
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Is there a funnier show on tv right now than American politics?!

The Feds raid Mar-a-lago, Trump and the entire conservative media machine cry hoax and demand the FBI unseal the warrant so the public can see what the feds were looking for (even though Trump has a copy of the warrant and could just tell the world himself what they were looking for and what they took); the AG calls Trumps bluff and asks for the warrant to be made public; Trump and the machine do a full 180 and consider legal action to make sure the warrant now isn't made public. And people like Pelosi still have the nerve to go to places like Taiwan (entirely for her own legacy) and lecture other countries on democracy! :lol:

Think I'd rather live in China... less crime, better food and no chance of getting blown away by some fruitcake with an AR-15
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