UK General Election 2024 (or 25)

[greenmark]

Sir Patrick Vallance says he was never consulted about the eat out to help the virus out scheme. I wonder why.

I think the most chlling words are Vallance saying BJ thought they should just let the virus rip.
And Rishi too "just let people die".
I don't have the vocabulary to describe how angry that makes me.

[Derek27]

And Rishi too "just let people die".

I don't think they were his words, that's what Cummings said Sunak was thinking.

It does really beggar belief that so many voters opt for a personality to run the country, who's a pathological liar, knows less about stats than a school kid and doesn't know his arse from his elbow!

[greenmark]

And Rishi too "just let people die".

I don't think they were his words, that's what Cummings said Sunak was thinking.

It does really beggar belief that so many voters opt for a personality to run the country, who's a pathological liar, knows less about stats than a school kid and doesn't know his arse from his elbow!

Chinese whispers then. Cummings to Vallance about Rishi's utterances. I anticipate a few "I don't recall" from Rishi's contribution to the inquiry.

[firlandsfarm]

Jeremy king canute is talking to Trevor Phillips. He's talking about the 300,000 who "aren't ill and don't have any disability"!

I've heard of people being sanctioned for not applying for jobs, applying for too many jobs, applying for jobs that are beyond them, not being in two places at the same time when interviews clash, etc. I think it's a case of being completely disconnected with the Work & Pensions department.

a few from 300,000 does not a disconnect make!

And is he wrong to call out the possible 300,000 'scroungers' because the Civil Service can't administrate perfectly?

I really don't know why you bother replying to my posts. I don't even know what you mean by "a few from 300,000 does not a disconnect make" or calling out people for the mere possibility of doing something wrong, but I can't ask you to clarify because you just ignore my question and start throwing insults, so I'd suggest you stop wasting your time. Get some more trading done.

In the spirt of the recent "This Forum" thread I'm not going to argue, I made my points and it was you who used the word "disconnect". As for insult throwing I suggest you check your recent previous comments targeted at me!

[firlandsfarm]

Information for trading purposes.

Thanks but I'll ignore it until the figure is substantiated

[firlandsfarm]

I think the most chlling words are Vallance saying BJ thought they should just let the virus rip.
And Rishi too "just let people die".
I don't have the vocabulary to describe how angry that makes me.

Greenmark, it's a nobody can win situation ... some are complaining they considered the 'do nothing' approach (but see Sweden's outcome) and others are complaining it cost too much to do something! Add to which the members of the public that have become self appointed newly qualified Epidemiologists, Immunologists, Virologists and Infectious disease physicians that have suddenly appeared post covid and consider themselves experts and we will not learn a thing especially as the enquiry seems to be more interested if blaming rather than learning.

[firlandsfarm]

And Rishi too "just let people die".

I don't think they were his words, that's what Cummings said Sunak was thinking.

Yes.

And also when managing a 'project', which the reaction to Covid was, Project Managers are required to consider everything, evaluate all possible processes/outcomes and eliminate them one by one.

[greenmark]

I think the most chlling words are Vallance saying BJ thought they should just let the virus rip.
And Rishi too "just let people die".
I don't have the vocabulary to describe how angry that makes me.

Greenmark, it's a nobody can win situation ... some are complaining they considered the 'do nothing' approach (but see Sweden's outcome) and others are complaining it cost too much to do something! Add to which the members of the public that have become self appointed newly qualified Epidemiologists, Immunologists, Virologists and Infectious disease physicians that have suddenly appeared post covid and consider themselves experts and we will not learn a thing especially as the enquiry seems to be more interested if blaming rather than learning.

"the enquiry seems to be more interested if blaming rather than learning." I have sensed that at various points. But you're right it would achieve nothing and my understanding is enquiries are specifically about learning from mistakes. Otherwise a it's colossal waste of time. Except to occupy lawyers, civil servants, media et al.

I think the 2 "quotes" are vallance and cummings' interpretation of BJ and Sunak's stance at the time. Now that makes me angry and if they had said it in public all hell would have broken loose.

[firlandsfarm]

I think the 2 "quotes" are vallance and cummings' interpretation of BJ and Sunak's stance at the time. Now that makes me angry and if they had said it in public all hell would have broken loose.

It's an offshoot of snowflakery ... if someone said "maybe we should just let it run it's natural course" it would be a form of 'consider the alternatives' whereas if someone said "maybe we should just let people die" it would be jumped upon as a heartless and disgusting/disgraceful attitude. But they both mean the same thing! There have been many times in history where some have been sacrificed for the greater good and the moving of elderly patients back to nursing homes was one of them.. Everyone is appalled by that action but what if there was not the bed space available for hospitals to continue to treat the elderly as well as accept new admissions, should the new admissions have been turned way because all the beds were full? What decision would Mr and Mrs Appalled have made between the elderly filling the beds and the younger new admissions? I bet they have never had to make such a decision ... all they are good at is to criticise those that did have to.

[greenmark]

I think the 2 "quotes" are vallance and cummings' interpretation of BJ and Sunak's stance at the time. Now that makes me angry and if they had said it in public all hell would have broken loose.

It's an offshoot of snowflakery ... if someone said "maybe we should just let it run it's natural course" it would be a form of 'consider the alternatives' whereas if someone said "maybe we should just let people die" it would be jumped upon as a heartless and disgusting/disgraceful attitude. But they both mean the same thing! There have been many times in history where some have been sacrificed for the greater good and the moving of elderly patients back to nursing homes was one of them.. Everyone is appalled by that action but what if there was not the bed space available for hospitals to continue to treat the elderly as well as accept new admissions, should the new admissions have been turned way because all the beds were full? What decision would Mr and Mrs Appalled have made between the elderly filling the beds and the younger new admissions? I bet they have never had to make such a decision ... all they are good at is to criticise those that did have to.

Perhaps. The difference is the quotes are a summary of the pair's attitude. Vallance freely admits BJ literally changed his mind overnight.
It's OK to ask "what if we let the virus rip?". That's subtely, but crucially different than an adviser assessing your view as - let the virus rip.
See what I mean?
But anyhow yes at the time I was thinking "everybody that's having to grapple with the nations response must be absolutely freaking out". I would found that sort of pressure ....er, challenging.

[Derek27]

a few from 300,000 does not a disconnect make!

And is he wrong to call out the possible 300,000 'scroungers' because the Civil Service can't administrate perfectly?

I really don't know why you bother replying to my posts. I don't even know what you mean by "a few from 300,000 does not a disconnect make" or calling out people for the mere possibility of doing something wrong, but I can't ask you to clarify because you just ignore my question and start throwing insults, so I'd suggest you stop wasting your time. Get some more trading done.

In the spirt of the recent "This Forum" thread I'm not going to argue, I made my points and it was you who used the word "disconnect". As for insult throwing I suggest you check your recent previous comments targeted at me!

It's not the word disconnect that I didn't understand, it was the combination of words: a few from 300,000 does not a disconnect make!

Make a disconnect? Disconnect is a verb, not a noun.

I used the word "disconnected" meaning the treasury is disconnected from the rest of government (it should be for the DWP to determine any potential savings, the home secretary can't tell the police how many arrests to make), but I'm sorry, a few from 300,000 does not a disconnect make! does not make any sense to me.

It's not throwing insults at me that was the problem, it was IGNORING THE QUESTION and throwing insults, the former makes any conversation pointless.

[Derek27]

Chris Whitty: The way Mr Johnson made decisions were unique to him.

[firlandsfarm]

I really don't know why you bother replying to my posts. I don't even know what you mean by "a few from 300,000 does not a disconnect make" or calling out people for the mere possibility of doing something wrong, but I can't ask you to clarify because you just ignore my question and start throwing insults, so I'd suggest you stop wasting your time. Get some more trading done.

In the spirt of the recent "This Forum" thread I'm not going to argue, I made my points and it was you who used the word "disconnect". As for insult throwing I suggest you check your recent previous comments targeted at me!

It's not the word disconnect that I didn't understand, it was the combination of words: a few from 300,000 does not a disconnect make!

Make a disconnect? Disconnect is a verb, not a noun.

I used the word "disconnected" meaning the treasury is disconnected from the rest of government (it should be for the DWP to determine any potential savings, the home secretary can't tell the police how many arrests to make), but I'm sorry, a few from 300,000 does not a disconnect make! does not make any sense to me.

It's not throwing insults at me that was the problem, it was IGNORING THE QUESTION and throwing insults, the former makes any conversation pointless.

Well as I said, I'm trying to operate within the spirit of the recent "This Forum" thread and not argue ... it's a shame you just don't seem to be able to resist. I made my points and I'm sticking with them ... I'm sorry if they are beyond you.

[firlandsfarm]

Vallance freely admits BJ literally changed his mind overnight. ...

It's OK to ask "what if we let the virus rip?". That's subtely, but crucially different than an adviser assessing your view as - let the virus rip.
See what I mean?

Yes and It puts you in the hands of the person giving the evidence ...

KC: Mr Witness, what did XYZ say?
Witness: "what if we let the virus rip?"
or
Witness: "let the virus rip"

Note: in the spoken word a question mark is silent.

Both responses are accurate and correct but would be interpreted differently by the Court.

I've often changed my mind overnight. A decision made under pressure at a meeting where many decisions were made and based on the advice given by those attending the meeting can often be changed after the meeting has ended and the decision reconsidered within a more relaxed environment and perhaps after alternative advice has been considered. It's colloquially know as 'sleeping on it'. Trouble is those who have never had to make such big decisions of life and death in such a high pressure environment put it on the same level of them deciding whether to have another pint or not!

[sionascaig]

I was drawn to his: "Let the bodies pile high." No question mark. And that was after due care & consideration, although if the evidence so far is to believed, he has the attention span of a gnat.

Was a bit staggered by the revelation the other day that 90% of civil service intake has arts & humanities based degrees - don't they value analysis & logical thinking (lawyers excepted)?