US Presidential Election 2024

Betfair trading & Punting on politics. Be aware there is a lot of off topic discussion in this group centred on Political views.
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Archery1969
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sionascaig wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 9:25 am
Archery1969 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:58 am
The Queen is covered by what is known as sovereign immunity in the UK. It means that the sovereign cannot commit a legal wrong and is immune from civil or criminal proceedings.

The Queen is careful to ensure that all her activities in her personal capacity are carried out in strict accordance with the law."

While the Queen cannot be arrested, other members of the Royal Family can be, unless they are with her. The law also states that no arrests can be made in the monarch's presence, or within the surroundings of a royal palace.

Further details can be found at https://britishheritage.com/
Been a lot in the papers about this recently... My understanding is that its not so much the presence as the place that is important regarding arrests (of non-queeny types), i.e. there are specific exemptions in English & Scottish law which means the police cannot investigate or arrest anyone on the "queens properties", both state & private without her permission.

Examples include Andrew running away to Balmoral so papers could not be served re rape case & Prince Harry (& pals) shooting protected birds of prey at Sandringham... In the later case the investigating authorities were not allowed access to the property when requested and when they eventually did get access found a group of retainers clearing up any evidence.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... es-decried

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... e-property

"Under the longstanding but ill-defined doctrine of sovereign immunity, criminal and civil proceedings are not brought against the monarch as head of state. But an investigation by the Guardian, drawing on official documents and analysis of legislation, reveals the extent to which laws have been written or amended to specify immunity for her conduct as a private citizen, along with her privately owned assets and estates – and even a privately owned business"
There are some strange laws or lack of in the UK.

Example: For most citizens there is a handgun ban in force since 1996 but Prince Philip was allowed to own and keep at home a Luger 9mm. He often fired this at Chelsea army barracks in the evenings. Therefore the argument of being allowed to own and keep under Section 7 but never fired did not apply. So, why was he allowed to use such firearm. Not as if nobody knew.
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Derek27
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Location: UK

Archery1969 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:58 am
The Queen is covered by what is known as sovereign immunity in the UK. It means that the sovereign cannot commit a legal wrong and is immune from civil or criminal proceedings.

The Queen is careful to ensure that all her activities in her personal capacity are carried out in strict accordance with the law."

While the Queen cannot be arrested, other members of the Royal Family can be, unless they are with her. The law also states that no arrests can be made in the monarch's presence, or within the surroundings of a royal palace.

Further details can be found at https://britishheritage.com/
I see you were right, so Andrew was above the law after all. The queen can also breach health & safety and discrimination laws.

Some of the odder exceptions for the monarch are included in laws against private persons setting off nuclear explosions, or regulating the sale of alcohol after midnight.
Archery1969
Posts: 3193
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:25 am
Location: Newport

Derek27 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:38 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:58 am
The Queen is covered by what is known as sovereign immunity in the UK. It means that the sovereign cannot commit a legal wrong and is immune from civil or criminal proceedings.

The Queen is careful to ensure that all her activities in her personal capacity are carried out in strict accordance with the law."

While the Queen cannot be arrested, other members of the Royal Family can be, unless they are with her. The law also states that no arrests can be made in the monarch's presence, or within the surroundings of a royal palace.

Further details can be found at https://britishheritage.com/
I see you were right, so Andrew was above the law after all. The queen can also breach health & safety and discrimination laws.

Some of the odder exceptions for the monarch are included in laws against private persons setting off nuclear explosions, or regulating the sale of alcohol after midnight.
I think Andrew is safe as long as he remains in a Royal Property / Grounds or in a car if the Queen is with him.

If the Police wanted to interview him or someone serve him legal papers in person then they would need the Queens permission.

But if he were to pop down the pub, paper shop or Kebab house on his own then he is fair prey. 🤠
Archery1969
Posts: 3193
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:25 am
Location: Newport

There are some strange laws still in existence in the UK.

“Under the 1839 Police Act it’s against the law to shake your rug in public after 8.00am”

Who or why would someone make that law ?

I bet that happens most Friday and Saturday nights in towns up and down the country.

🤠
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Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Archery1969 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:50 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:38 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:58 am
The Queen is covered by what is known as sovereign immunity in the UK. It means that the sovereign cannot commit a legal wrong and is immune from civil or criminal proceedings.

The Queen is careful to ensure that all her activities in her personal capacity are carried out in strict accordance with the law."

While the Queen cannot be arrested, other members of the Royal Family can be, unless they are with her. The law also states that no arrests can be made in the monarch's presence, or within the surroundings of a royal palace.

Further details can be found at https://britishheritage.com/
I see you were right, so Andrew was above the law after all. The queen can also breach health & safety and discrimination laws.

Some of the odder exceptions for the monarch are included in laws against private persons setting off nuclear explosions, or regulating the sale of alcohol after midnight.
I think Andrew is safe as long as he remains in a Royal Property / Grounds or in a car if the Queen is with him.

If the Police wanted to interview him or someone serve him legal papers in person then they would need the Queens permission.

But if he were to pop down the pub, paper shop or Kebab house on his own then he is fair prey. 🤠
The queen claims not to use her powers to get round the law and if she did protect Andrew that would be the end of the monarch. It will probably end in the next few decades anyway.
Archery1969
Posts: 3193
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:25 am
Location: Newport

Derek27 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:12 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:50 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:38 pm


I see you were right, so Andrew was above the law after all. The queen can also breach health & safety and discrimination laws.

Some of the odder exceptions for the monarch are included in laws against private persons setting off nuclear explosions, or regulating the sale of alcohol after midnight.
I think Andrew is safe as long as he remains in a Royal Property / Grounds or in a car if the Queen is with him.

If the Police wanted to interview him or someone serve him legal papers in person then they would need the Queens permission.

But if he were to pop down the pub, paper shop or Kebab house on his own then he is fair prey. 🤠
The queen claims not to use her powers to get round the law and if she did protect Andrew that would be the end of the monarch. It will probably end in the next few decades anyway.
True but in one way she can use her powers to influence laws:

“In November 1973 the Queen feared that a proposed bill to bring transparency to company shareholdings could enable the public to scrutinise her finances. As a result she dispatched her private lawyer to press the government to make changes and they did”

Hence her real wealth is not known. I wouldn’t call the above being very transparent etc.
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Dublin_Flyer
Posts: 688
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:39 am

I see you were right, so Andrew was above the law after all. The queen can also breach health & safety and discrimination laws.
"Under the longstanding but ill-defined doctrine of sovereign immunity, criminal and civil proceedings are not brought against the monarch as head of state. But an investigation by the Guardian, drawing on official documents and analysis of legislation, reveals the extent to which laws have been written or amended to specify immunity for her conduct as a private citizen, along with her privately owned assets and estates – and even a privately owned business"
Lads I think we found who runs the companies that work all the poor Asians to death building the World Cup stadia in Qatar :shock:
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Derek27
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Donald Trump's Florida home has been raided by FBI agents. :D :D
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Naffman
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Derek27 wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:08 am
Donald Trump's Florida home has been raided by FBI agents. :D :D
And yet still just above evs to get the nomination :shock:
Archery1969
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Location: Newport

Naffman wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:24 am
Derek27 wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:08 am
Donald Trump's Florida home has been raided by FBI agents. :D :D
And yet still just above evs to get the nomination :shock:
There is nothing stopping him being nominated, the FBI and others are trying to convict him on something/anything so he can never become the president again. Many have said that even if convicted its highly unlikely he would do any jail time as the encumbent administration would pardon him. They may hate doing that but it would be highly embarassing as a nation to leave an ex president residing in jail.

Its just a political game. Don't forget Trump has been playing a game with the IRS for about 40 years. Anybody else would have been fined and sent to jail many moons ago.

There also questions about his links to Russia and Putin, who knew what and when. Again, nobody wants all that coming out in a book or being leaked over the internet. Plea bargains galore will take place.

Probably the best one could hope for is house arrest for 10+ years if conviced etc.
Trader Pat
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

The raid is apparently in relation to the handling of classified documents that should be part of the archive but they believe Trump took some home with him. If they find any then he's committed a felony and won't do any jail time but will be automatically barred from running for office again.

Problem is if they don't find any then they've just made a martyr of him, and he'll be able to campaign off the back of it. It's incredible that a former president's home has been raided but I can't imagine even he'd be dumb enough to have any incriminating documents at mar-a-lago. Having said that the feds must have some compelling evidence to even get a judge to sign off on a warrant for an ex president.
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Derek27
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Trader Pat wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:57 am
The raid is apparently in relation to the handling of classified documents that should be part of the archive but they believe Trump took some home with him. If they find any then he's committed a felony and won't do any jail time but will be automatically barred from running for office again.

Problem is if they don't find any then they've just made a martyr of him, and he'll be able to campaign off the back of it. It's incredible that a former president's home has been raided but I can't imagine even he'd be dumb enough to have any incriminating documents at mar-a-lago. Having said that the feds must have some compelling evidence to even get a judge to sign off on a warrant for an ex president.
Bill Clinton committed a felony, sorry, that was a fellatio.

I'm sure they'll "find" something, better chance than Trump finding 10,000 votes. :D
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Derek27
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Trader Pat wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:57 am
The raid is apparently in relation to the handling of classified documents that should be part of the archive but they believe Trump took some home with him. If they find any then he's committed a felony and won't do any jail time but will be automatically barred from running for office again.

Problem is if they don't find any then they've just made a martyr of him, and he'll be able to campaign off the back of it. It's incredible that a former president's home has been raided but I can't imagine even he'd be dumb enough to have any incriminating documents at mar-a-lago. Having said that the feds must have some compelling evidence to even get a judge to sign off on a warrant for an ex president.
He could get 3 years in prison. :D

To obtain a warrant the FBI would have to convince the judge that there's probable cause to believe Trump has illegal documents, that they are at his house and there's a likelihood that they will be destroyed if the FBI doesn't swoop. So they must have some evidence, let's hope they find more than the menu for a presidential dinner, which Trump has failed to return to the national archive.
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Naffman
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Trader Pat wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:57 am
The raid is apparently in relation to the handling of classified documents that should be part of the archive but they believe Trump took some home with him. If they find any then he's committed a felony and won't do any jail time but will be automatically barred from running for office again.

Problem is if they don't find any then they've just made a martyr of him, and he'll be able to campaign off the back of it. It's incredible that a former president's home has been raided but I can't imagine even he'd be dumb enough to have any incriminating documents at mar-a-lago. Having said that the feds must have some compelling evidence to even get a judge to sign off on a warrant for an ex president.
Time is not on DT’s side, they’ve got 2 years to figure how to screw him (and rightfully so) but I agree if they come up short he can play the victim card.

DeSantis mentioned it but didn’t mention Trump’s name which is interesting, he’s clear favourite and if he wins big in November he could carry that momentum through to 2024 especially now with the backing of Murdoch
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

Naffman wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:03 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:57 am
The raid is apparently in relation to the handling of classified documents that should be part of the archive but they believe Trump took some home with him. If they find any then he's committed a felony and won't do any jail time but will be automatically barred from running for office again.

Problem is if they don't find any then they've just made a martyr of him, and he'll be able to campaign off the back of it. It's incredible that a former president's home has been raided but I can't imagine even he'd be dumb enough to have any incriminating documents at mar-a-lago. Having said that the feds must have some compelling evidence to even get a judge to sign off on a warrant for an ex president.
Time is not on DT’s side, they’ve got 2 years to figure how to screw him (and rightfully so) but I agree if they come up short he can play the victim card.

DeSantis mentioned it but didn’t mention Trump’s name which is interesting, he’s clear favourite and if he wins big in November he could carry that momentum through to 2024 especially now with the backing of Murdoch
If they don't find anything CNN's wet dream will turn into the end of the world but it will be really interesting to see how DeSantis plays it. Like you say he has Murdoch's backing now so he'll definitely be running in 2024 and so will Trump, so how hard will DeSantis go after Trump? Those debates will be a great watch.
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