I think I might agree that the US is currently in a battle for the preservation of it's democracy.Trader Pat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:21 amHave to disagree with your here Gaz.gazuty wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:54 amWrong.Archery1969 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:20 amBut it’s not a true democracy, look at what the Supreme Court did over abortion laws. There was no National or even state vote on the subject.
There are plenty of state laws in the US on abortion - and those state laws are passed by state legislators elected by the citizens of each State. That is representative democracy in action. Representative democracy is different from direct democracy - we don't have a vote on every single issue. Mob rule is itself never wise.
The US is a unique case study because its not one country, it's effectively fifty countries each with their own set of laws. With abortion the Republicans did what they do best, they played the long game. They quietly got conservatives elected to positions of power much further down the food chain where they could influence state legislatures. They know that if an abortion ban was put to a public vote they would lose big time. Kansas left it to the voters to decide and they voted against an amendment to the constitution that would have allowed lawmakers to ban abortions. Kansas is one of the more conservative states in the union.
Representative democracy isn't justification for politicians passing any law they want. Take Brexit, that was put to a public vote. The Tories didn't say we can do what we want because you elected us to office.
I agree with Archery.Archery1969 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:20 amThe USA and other western countries are only a true democracy when it suits them.
If the US were a true democracy how could one man (Mitch McConnell) have continually blocked senate votes for years on bills from gun control to healthcare even though polls showed that a majority of Americans were in favour of change? And it's not just the Republicans, the current Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer's daughter is a lobbyist for big tech which is at the very least a conflict of interest because he still hasn't put an antitrust bill against big tech to the senate for a full vote.
There are senators who have been in office for forty years who have only had to stand for re-election once because there was nobody to stand against them. How's that true democracy?
Like you I'd rather live in a democratic society but it's a fallacy of the western world that all the people in these countries need or want to be saved, they don't.gazuty wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:54 amAre you saying there is some conspiracy of the elite that decides when and how democracy is suited to the conditions of the west?
Let's be really clear, whatever failings there are in the West, and there are many, the system of representative democracy in the west is vastly superior to the autoritarian systems in China and Russia, the absolute monarchy of Suadi Arabia or the theocracy of Iran.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022 ... ing-rights
Sorry it's a long article but there's worrying stuff in it. Republican states passing laws to make it harder for the opposition voters to vote is pretty disturbing.
I think in the past across democratic countries there was a cross-party consensus to ensure that elections were a fair fight because that is the feature of democracy that protects us all from nutjobs.
Although it didn't protect us Hitler TBF.
But the article suggests an orchestrated campaign by republicans to impair opponents. Very dangerous IMO.