UK General Election 2024 (or 25)

[Archangel]

This is a General Strike in all but name. Not sure what the govt can do here, they cant give everyone a pay rise when the economic outlook is so bleak surely...

[Archery1969]

The total public sector pay bill in 2021/22 was £233 Billion. Using the 10.1% average figure for the consumer price index forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility, giving all public sector workers this inflation based pay increase would cost £23.5 Billion.

But from what I hear most are demanding 18% which is £41.9 Billion. Thats a big number.

I think this is why Labour are not really getting involved in this debate as they dont know how to fund these pay scales either.

Yes, you can close a loophole here and there but you still dont get to anywhere near the numbers required. You can only tax energy companies based on UK revenues, not globally, most of them that operate in the UK and offshore actually make a big loss, well, on paper. And as for growing the economy by 2 or 3% every year to fund such pay rises would take 3 or 4 terms in office. Probably not going to happen.

And lets face it, no government, anywhere in the world, is good a taxing the wealthy as they pay experts so they pay as little tax as possible. The problem is, someone this clever, is not going to work for HMRC or the IRS when they can earn ten times the salary in the private sector.

I am obviously confident Labour will win the next GE but holding onto more than 1 term in office might be very difficult as the national debt is mind blowing and all the countries other problems will take many decades to solve, if at all.

[jamesedwards]

I am obviously confident Labour will win the next GE ...

The general 5.0 available on Conservative most seats looks jolly juicy right now. The hard left are doing a great job flooding social media with wailing stories about "the Tory scum" this, and "their mates" that, but history has shown how badly social media represents the wider sentiment of voters. Labour needs to turn around a huge Conservative majority, while facing into continued wipe-out in Scotland plus unfavourable boundary changes.

I foresee Conservatives trading much lower than 5.0 before election time comes around. It's gonna be fascinating!

[Derek27]

The Guardian: Watchdog looks into £220,000 [tax payers money] bill for Johnson Partygate legal advice

[greenmark]

The total public sector pay bill in 2021/22 was £233 Billion. Using the 10.1% average figure for the consumer price index forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility, giving all public sector workers this inflation based pay increase would cost £23.5 Billion.

But from what I hear most are demanding 18% which is £41.9 Billion. Thats a big number.

I think this is why Labour are not really getting involved in this debate as they dont know how to fund these pay scales either.

Yes, you can close a loophole here and there but you still dont get to anywhere near the numbers required. You can only tax energy companies based on UK revenues, not globally, most of them that operate in the UK and offshore actually make a big loss, well, on paper. And as for growing the economy by 2 or 3% every year to fund such pay rises would take 3 or 4 terms in office. Probably not going to happen.

And lets face it, no government, anywhere in the world, is good a taxing the wealthy as they pay experts so they pay as little tax as possible. The problem is, someone this clever, is not going to work for HMRC or the IRS when they can earn ten times the salary in the private sector.

I am obviously confident Labour will win the next GE but holding onto more than 1 term in office might be very difficult as the national debt is mind blowing and all the countries other problems will take many decades to solve, if at all.

As an aside, do you think that protestations in the past that there was no fiscal headroom were being "economical with the truth"?
The money that we've borrowed to cover Covid and Ukraine could have been invested years ago and the UK would be biigger and stronger to cope with the crap of the last few years. No?

[Archery1969]

The total public sector pay bill in 2021/22 was £233 Billion. Using the 10.1% average figure for the consumer price index forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility, giving all public sector workers this inflation based pay increase would cost £23.5 Billion.

But from what I hear most are demanding 18% which is £41.9 Billion. Thats a big number.

I think this is why Labour are not really getting involved in this debate as they dont know how to fund these pay scales either.

Yes, you can close a loophole here and there but you still dont get to anywhere near the numbers required. You can only tax energy companies based on UK revenues, not globally, most of them that operate in the UK and offshore actually make a big loss, well, on paper. And as for growing the economy by 2 or 3% every year to fund such pay rises would take 3 or 4 terms in office. Probably not going to happen.

And lets face it, no government, anywhere in the world, is good a taxing the wealthy as they pay experts so they pay as little tax as possible. The problem is, someone this clever, is not going to work for HMRC or the IRS when they can earn ten times the salary in the private sector.

I am obviously confident Labour will win the next GE but holding onto more than 1 term in office might be very difficult as the national debt is mind blowing and all the countries other problems will take many decades to solve, if at all.

As an aside, do you think that protestations in the past that there was no fiscal headroom were being "economical with the truth"?
The money that we've borrowed to cover Covid and Ukraine could have been invested years ago and the UK would be biigger and stronger to cope with the crap of the last few years. No?

Well, with hindsight and very forward thinking, yes, they could have borrowed £450 billion and invested, jointly with energy companies in 1. Wind farms. 2. Hydro power. 3. Mini nuclear power stations. 4. Energy capture and storage. 5. Battery manufacture. 6. Home insulation. 7. Fusion. 8. Pharmaceutical research.

That would have made sure, energy wise, we were 99% energy efficient for the next 100+ or so years barring on-going maintenance. It would have created about 600,000+ high skilled /wage employment plus all the knock on jobs surrounding such industries.

But obviously it would have raised eyebrows due to high levels of borrowing, not seen since WW2 in todays money.

However, up until now, no political party has ever mentioned such long term borrowing and investment over a 10 year period.

As I said, with hindsight, of course a good idea. But what happens if you embark on such and you are hit by a pandemic, war or other national disaster as it wouldn’t leave much room for more borrowing until the investment starts to pay off and come on-line. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try and go for it but it’s a massive risk.

Problem is most political parties and the public are very short sighted. Explaining the above to a 15 year old, they would say, go for it. Asking someone in their 60s and they probably won’t care and say they probably be dead before they see the benefit. Hear and now type mentality often leads politicians.

[greenmark]

The total public sector pay bill in 2021/22 was £233 Billion. Using the 10.1% average figure for the consumer price index forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility, giving all public sector workers this inflation based pay increase would cost £23.5 Billion.

But from what I hear most are demanding 18% which is £41.9 Billion. Thats a big number.

I think this is why Labour are not really getting involved in this debate as they dont know how to fund these pay scales either.

Yes, you can close a loophole here and there but you still dont get to anywhere near the numbers required. You can only tax energy companies based on UK revenues, not globally, most of them that operate in the UK and offshore actually make a big loss, well, on paper. And as for growing the economy by 2 or 3% every year to fund such pay rises would take 3 or 4 terms in office. Probably not going to happen.

And lets face it, no government, anywhere in the world, is good a taxing the wealthy as they pay experts so they pay as little tax as possible. The problem is, someone this clever, is not going to work for HMRC or the IRS when they can earn ten times the salary in the private sector.

I am obviously confident Labour will win the next GE but holding onto more than 1 term in office might be very difficult as the national debt is mind blowing and all the countries other problems will take many decades to solve, if at all.

As an aside, do you think that protestations in the past that there was no fiscal headroom were being "economical with the truth"?
The money that we've borrowed to cover Covid and Ukraine could have been invested years ago and the UK would be biigger and stronger to cope with the crap of the last few years. No?

Well, with hindsight and very forward thinking, yes, they could have borrowed £450 billion and invested, jointly with energy companies in 1. Wind farms. 2. Hydro power. 3. Mini nuclear power stations. 4. Energy capture and storage. 5. Battery manufacture. 6. Home insulation. 7. Fusion. 8. Pharmaceutical research.

That would have made sure, energy wise, we were 99% energy efficient for the next 100+ or so years barring on-going maintenance. It would have created about 600,000+ high skilled /wage employment plus all the knock on jobs surrounding such industries.

But obviously it would have raised eyebrows due to high levels of borrowing, not seen since WW2 in todays money.

However, up until now, no political party has ever mentioned such long term borrowing and investment over a 10 year period.

As I said, with hindsight, of course a good idea. But what happens if you embark on such and you are hit by a pandemic, war or other national disaster as it wouldn’t leave much room for more borrowing until the investment starts to pay off and come on-line. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try and go for it but it’s a massive risk.

Problem is most political parties and the public are very short sighted. Explaining the above to a 15 year old, they would say, go for it. Asking someone in their 60s and they probably won’t care and say they probably be dead before they see the benefit. Hear and now type mentality often leads politicians.

All very interesting. I'm constantly drawn to the Scandanavian model. If they messed up, they perished. Their model is consensus and practicality.
We squabble and waste our resources. C'est a vie!

[Euler]

One core problem of being held accountable to many is that it's better to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally.

If you fail you can point the finger at some reason, but if you succeed unconventionally then you are consider 'lucky'. If you fail you are lambasted for being incompetent, and so the game trundles on.

Governments need to bite the bullet, but that gets them voted out till the next one falls into the same trap.

You need a crisis to clear things out, but each crisis just gets the can kicked further down the road at the moment.

[Michael5482]

One core problem of being held accountable to many is that it's better to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally.

If you fail you can point the finger at some reason, but if you succeed unconventionally then you are consider 'lucky'. If you fail you are lambasted for being incompetent, and so the game trundles on.

Governments need to bite the bullet, but that gets them voted out till the next one falls into the same trap.

You need a crisis to clear things out, but each crisis just gets the can kicked further down the road at the moment.

They spend far to much time arguing and behaving like school children than actually doing anything constructive. Politics in general is just a cesspit of scandal and incompetence. The majority of MP's have no interest in the general public of the services their supposed to manage and only interested in themselves.

[greenmark]

The next govt will probably be labour or a coalition. It's incumbent on all of us now to get out there and put forward your view. And I don't mean labour, tory or liberal, I mean YOUR view. That's democracy.

[Archery1969]

The next govt will probably be labour or a coalition. It's incumbent on all of us now to get out there and put forward your view. And I don't mean labour, tory or liberal, I mean YOUR view. That's democracy.

Then I would strongly argue and vote for proportinal representation and/or adopt the Swiss model. i.e. If anyone puts an idea forward and can get 100,000 valid signatures then it must be then put to a national public vote. Obviously you end up having allot more national voting but to some its a price worth paying and engages the electorate.

[Archangel]

PR is badly needed to get rid of this archaic system we have. I doubt it will ever get changed though.
Turkeys and Christmas etc.

[Derek27]

Struggling to understand how Shell Oil can announce record profits when energy prices are supposably only going up due to wholesale prices!

[jamesedwards]

Struggling to understand how Shell Oil can announce record profits when energy prices are supposably only going up due to wholesale prices!

Much of their business is producing and selling wholesale.

[sionascaig]

I was struggling to understand how come shell has paid no UK corp taxes for the last 5 years (apart from the windfall tax)... Sounds like they, like a lot of multis are just managing their tax affairs to pay taxes in jurisdictions with lowest tax rate...

Surely profits generated from UK oils should be due to UK gov & ditto Amazon & co...