Trading What I see !?

Learn sports betting strategies and discuss key factors to consider when placing a bet.
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goat68
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Think I need a new Laptop to run Guardian, my rather low spec one tripped out this evening, "over heat", the poor fan couldn't keep up! Fan sounds like a rocket most of the time!
Anbell
Posts: 2006
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:31 am

You can spin up a virtual machine quickly/cheaply/flexibly
Snaff
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:26 pm

This topic seems more my place. I’m sure you have all found every pattern the is to see. A time scale works one day and not the next, Betfair’s mechanism bla bla bla. I’m sure 1000s come and 1000s go but a select few clean up. People watch video’s and look to copy that but with limited success. Why would people making 1000s want to advertise the edge? They wouldn’t. Why would they want more people trading then? Create more value? Now I’m sure plenty take on the trends looking for value and still come up short. Great one day and not the next. So many bright minds can not solve it so why do a certain couple? This drives me round the bend 😆
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goat68
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Snaff wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:09 am
This topic seems more my place. I’m sure you have all found every pattern the is to see. A time scale works one day and not the next, Betfair’s mechanism bla bla bla. I’m sure 1000s come and 1000s go but a select few clean up. People watch video’s and look to copy that but with limited success. Why would people making 1000s want to advertise the edge? They wouldn’t. Why would they want more people trading then? Create more value? Now I’m sure plenty take on the trends looking for value and still come up short. Great one day and not the next. So many bright minds can not solve it so why do a certain couple? This drives me round the bend 😆
Spot on, doesn't make any sense...
Snaff
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:26 pm

Glad someone agrees. I try to think outside the box but the is only so much you can do.
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goat68
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Anbell wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 3:55 am
You can spin up a virtual machine quickly/cheaply/flexibly
Yes, if I get a bot I want to run seriously, i will use a vps, cheaper than spending £400 on a new laptop..
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

goat68 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:28 am
Anbell wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 3:55 am
You can spin up a virtual machine quickly/cheaply/flexibly
Yes, if I get a bot I want to run seriously, i will use a vps, cheaper than spending £400 on a new laptop..
If you're collecting data then a min spec server for about $20 a month is cheaper than the electric bill. And your laptop is usable again instead of being tied up for 21hrs a day.
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goat68
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Think I am going to give up trying to find a profitable bot for UK racing, it just seems far too efficient, "opportunities" of value seem very small, and get lost in hedging. I'm going to record more AUS race data, and see where it takes me.....
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goat68
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Sums up my luck at the moment:
5 Lay bets odds of 6 to 8, 2 horses won
8 Back bets, 0 horses won
!
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

goat68 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:50 pm
Think I am going to give up trying to find a profitable bot for UK racing, it just seems far too efficient, "opportunities" of value seem very small, and get lost in hedging. I'm going to record more AUS race data, and see where it takes me.....
'Efficiency' is simply the fact that prices are generally 'correct' at anytime assuming you back/lay everything. Ie there's no magic moment when there's a bias vs bsp at scale. But prices move huge amounts throughout the day right up to the off which means that at any time and on any selection there's value to be had. It's 'just' a matter of comming up with yor own fair pricing algo to identify them.

UK racing is too liquid to just ignore, if you can't make value botting work (and that's tough to prove with so few races) then there's loads of niche areas where there's a dollar to be had. I mentioned price action around traditional odds values, behaviour after spikes, overbacking, MA crossovers etc etc, all worth thoroughly investigating and the more markets you watch the more potential niches you see.
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

goat68 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:24 pm
Sums up my luck at the moment:
5 Lay bets odds of 6 to 8, 2 horses won
8 Back bets, 0 horses won
!
There's no such thing as 'luck', only probablity ;) And the more you bet the more outliers you'll see.

I don't watch the racing I'd imagine the rapidly changing weather is throwing up some unexpected results, not every horse likes a face full of driving rain and 10mins later the sun is shining. I know that feeling, I've had my wellies on and off and the kettle on and off all day and the new shed is still no more than a pile of timber. I've been poor value today.
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goat68
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 5:41 pm
goat68 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:50 pm
Think I am going to give up trying to find a profitable bot for UK racing, it just seems far too efficient, "opportunities" of value seem very small, and get lost in hedging. I'm going to record more AUS race data, and see where it takes me.....
'Efficiency' is simply the fact that prices are generally 'correct' at anytime assuming you back/lay everything. Ie there's no magic moment when there's a bias vs bsp at scale. But prices move huge amounts throughout the day right up to the off which means that at any time and on any selection there's value to be had. It's 'just' a matter of comming up with yor own fair pricing algo to identify them.

UK racing is too liquid to just ignore, if you can't make value botting work (and that's tough to prove with so few races) then there's loads of niche areas where there's a dollar to be had. I mentioned price action around traditional odds values, behaviour after spikes, overbacking, MA crossovers etc etc, all worth thoroughly investigating and the more markets you watch the more potential niches you see.
So fair pricing algo, how can you do that on price action alone? Surely need fundamentals...
Feeling frustrated again, partly because lost another load of money this week..
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goat68
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Trying to figure if i'm still enjoying this or not....
Losses and cost is adding up, with no return in sight
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goat68
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

So been having some interesting discussions here and on Slack recently, and one common useful theme that comes out for Automation, is if you can't "Reason" your method/rule it's probably -EV. The bot I spent ages refining based on the "cutting losers" method, basically I started with a basic VWAP mean reversion value bot and found places where it was losing identifying the "pattern" and adding it to the Conditions of the bot. What I ended up with is something I believe is fitted to those "historic" patterns. Here are the Conditions for one of the rules of my bot, for you to all laugh at:
Screenshot 2021-05-12 at 19.16.44.png
So I think the "Reasoning" is very important, not the actual "cutting losers".
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goat68
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

I spent 3 months refining this one bot, and it works great on my 3 months of backtest data :-)
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