Adam Heathcote

The sport of kings.
Post Reply
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:54 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:33 pm
Well exactly, an entire methodology isn't a tip. But even a methodology isn't much use if you don't have the right mindset.
+1 Pat, I didn't mean it to sound like I was disagreeing even though I started with "it depends". Let's just say that some tips are bigger than others. If it fits on a Post-It note it's not going to change your life much.
Its all good, I got where you were coming from.

I suppose I'm looking at it through my own experience, it took me a few years to get the mindset right.
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:18 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:45 pm
Getting tips from top traders isn't going to make you a profitable trader.
Mmmm sort of depends. For me someone said do X, i did X and I've made a decent living from it now for coming up to 3yrs. But X was an entire methodology and mindset rather than 'exercise before work' or 'look for the fav being supported'.

Trouble is that being a good trader and being a good teach aren't even vaguely correlated, and neither is being enthusiastic and being a good student. Unfortunately most people who want to learn something don't understand how to learn, which is a skill in itself that you have to acquire before you even start with the difference between a back and a lay. Once you've learnt how to learn there's nothing you can't do.
This makes me curious. When someone told you to do x and you did x and became profitable, did that other person lose their edge?.

If someone shows their edge do the vast majority not know how to learn from what has been shown?.
User avatar
goat68
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

jamesg46 wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:06 pm

If someone shows their edge do the vast majority not know how to learn from what has been shown?.
I think I am case in point ! :|
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

goat68 wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:43 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:06 pm

If someone shows their edge do the vast majority not know how to learn from what has been shown?.
I think I am case in point ! :|
I’m genuinely baffled by someone that says you can lose an edge by sharing it but has made a living off of someone Else’s edge!
User avatar
ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

jamesg46 wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:06 pm
This makes me curious. When someone told you to do x and you did x and became profitable, did that other person lose their edge?.

If someone shows their edge do the vast majority not know how to learn from what has been shown?.
They (obviously) didn't tell me what their edge was, they taught me how to find them. Besides I didn't want to be given an edge because ...
"give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"

Edges come and go, having 1 doesn't even guarantee next week's wages so ideally you need a portfolio of them and always have more in the pipeline. Btw talking auto here, orderflow trading is a skill you learn then it evolves as the markets evolve so I'm lead to believe.

I don't want to f-up this thread so this is probably a convo for the 'trade what I see' which seems to have become a bit of a catch all :)
adryan87
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 pm

User avatar
Euler
Posts: 24703
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Interesting thread and comments, but here is the contradiction. I taught Adam so I know it's possible to teach, but then it's not just about me or what I teach.

Adam was quite a natural trader and fresh out of Uni didn't have the baggage that some people carry. I actually went to Exeter university to speak to their maths society, but Adam was the only person from there to trade full time. The funny thing was that he wasn't in the audience that night!!

Also you learn from trying to teach. I've shown two people the exact thing they need to do, but both came out with different results. So you can't underestimate the individual makeup and desire and ability to take risks. That's what led me into the psychology of trading and how people make decisions.

There have been quite a few high profile people I taught or influenced so you can see there is some commonality. But even then the market changes over time, so some that choose their own path from there ended up losing their edge. Trading is a multi dimensional discipline.

Most trading style's I've documented in great depth, but people still think there is some massive secret they are missing out on. There is, it's called hard work.
stueytrader
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 8:04 pm
Youth helps, make and lose a million before you're 25 and it's no big deal. Find yourself on your arse at 55 and it's a different story, especially if you've ever had to do a 'proper' job and know how hard money is to come by.
Liked this point for sure. For any of us in our 50 somethings, risking it all and going for it seems somewhat more scary than doing it when 24 years old or so. We have much less time to fall back on if it all goes south.

Wish I could have found my current level of trading success when I was younger though, would have saved some hard years and periods of my life, and some negative side-effects even now due to some hard previous years. One of my biggest regrets is suffering some hard years that also made it hard for those around me. But, I do wonder if I only really found my current ability and success due to going through those bad times. It certainly altered my mindset permanently, and eventually moulded me to become successful.

A 'lifespan development' view of trading would certainly be an interesting area to study. :ugeek:
User avatar
psychoff
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:52 pm
Contact:

Those were the days which Adam's blog was one of the most popular for horse racing and mine was for football trading. I didn't have a chance to meet him in person but we were sending emails to each other. I have always admired his work, passion and dedication to trading and I am sure he inspired many people. People were criticising/denying/accusing both of us in those days as well like today. I am glad he found himself another way he is happy with.
User avatar
Kai
Posts: 6100
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm

psychoff wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:03 pm
Those were the days which Adam's blog was one of the most popular for horse racing and mine was for football trading.
Would have liked to see your football trading blog back then, unfortunately it was slightly before my time. There really wasn't much football trading stuff elsewhere either, since everyone wanted to trade horse racing. I literally had to translate Portuguese stuff to get some good guidelines on football trading :D
Emmson
Posts: 3363
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:47 pm

psychoff wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:03 pm
Those were the days which Adam's blog was one of the most popular for horse racing and mine was for football trading. I didn't have a chance to meet him in person but we were sending emails to each other. I have always admired his work, passion and dedication to trading and I am sure he inspired many people. People were criticising/denying/accusing both of us in those days as well like today. I am glad he found himself another way he is happy with.
Like Psychoff he also sold services though that seems to have been short lived.

Is Psychoff on the Way Back Machine?
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 24703
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Kai wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:21 pm
I literally had to translate Portuguese stuff to get some good guidelines on football trading :D
Paulo was also one of my first students.

I got into discussions with Betfair Iberia and they invited me over to help give them a kick start and Paulo was one of the people to come out of that. Ultimately, because I started so early I'm bound to have seen many people at the start of their career.

Adam's popularity surprised me as I'd been banging in some great results for ages and hadn't expected people to be so surprised at what was possible.

For many years people were just fascinated by trading, but only when competition increased the abuse start flying. There are loads of great stories to be told but the market is so noisy now, I don't think they will really get the coverage they deserve.

That has probably hindered growth of the exchanges as well. So many great personal stories.
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23478
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Euler wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:42 pm
Kai wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:21 pm
I literally had to translate Portuguese stuff to get some good guidelines on football trading :D
Paulo was also one of my first students.

I got into discussions with Betfair Iberia and they invited me over to help give them a kick start and Paulo was one of the people to come out of that. Ultimately, because I started so early I'm bound to have seen many people at the start of their career.

Adam's popularity surprised me as I'd been banging in some great results for ages and hadn't expected people to be so surprised at what was possible.

For many years people were just fascinated by trading, but only when competition increased the abuse start flying. There are loads of great stories to be told but the market is so noisy now, I don't think they will really get the coverage they deserve.

That has probably hindered growth of the exchanges as well. So many great stories.
Your ex-student list seems to be a who's who of top Betfair traders. :)
footysystems
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 5:57 pm

There was a suggestion Adam was a myth. Either that or was bloody good ?
User avatar
PDC
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:52 pm

Euler wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:11 pm
I actually went to Exeter university to speak to their maths society, but Adam was the only person from there to trade full time. The funny thing was that he wasn't in the audience that night!!

There have been quite a few high profile people I taught
I'd be curious to hear more about this part of the story as I haven't read about it anywhere.

For example, how did you and Adam end up 'together'?
Why did no one you actually spoke to at the society take up trading?
Why did he require teaching if he was a natural or was it more guidance?
When you talk about teaching people are you talking about the courses you offer or something more such as 1 to 1 tuition?
Etc etc

I'd think it would make for an interesting addition to the story told to date.
Euler wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:42 pm
There are loads of great stories to be told but the market is so noisy now, I don't think they will really get the coverage they deserve.

So many great personal stories.
Whatever happened to your plans to publish a book, if nothing else but to tell these stories? I'd have thought that would be the perfect medium through which to give them the coverage they deserve, especially given how much easier self publishing is now.

If a certain someone can put out a #1 Best seller then.....
Post Reply

Return to “Trading Horse racing”