Adam Heathcote

The sport of kings.
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Emmson
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psychoff wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:03 pm
Those were the days which Adam's blog was one of the most popular for horse racing and mine was for football trading. I didn't have a chance to meet him in person but we were sending emails to each other. I have always admired his work, passion and dedication to trading and I am sure he inspired many people. People were criticising/denying/accusing both of us in those days as well like today. I am glad he found himself another way he is happy with.
Like Psychoff he also sold services though that seems to have been short lived.

Is Psychoff on the Way Back Machine?
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Euler
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Kai wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:21 pm
I literally had to translate Portuguese stuff to get some good guidelines on football trading :D
Paulo was also one of my first students.

I got into discussions with Betfair Iberia and they invited me over to help give them a kick start and Paulo was one of the people to come out of that. Ultimately, because I started so early I'm bound to have seen many people at the start of their career.

Adam's popularity surprised me as I'd been banging in some great results for ages and hadn't expected people to be so surprised at what was possible.

For many years people were just fascinated by trading, but only when competition increased the abuse start flying. There are loads of great stories to be told but the market is so noisy now, I don't think they will really get the coverage they deserve.

That has probably hindered growth of the exchanges as well. So many great personal stories.
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Derek27
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Euler wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:42 pm
Kai wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:21 pm
I literally had to translate Portuguese stuff to get some good guidelines on football trading :D
Paulo was also one of my first students.

I got into discussions with Betfair Iberia and they invited me over to help give them a kick start and Paulo was one of the people to come out of that. Ultimately, because I started so early I'm bound to have seen many people at the start of their career.

Adam's popularity surprised me as I'd been banging in some great results for ages and hadn't expected people to be so surprised at what was possible.

For many years people were just fascinated by trading, but only when competition increased the abuse start flying. There are loads of great stories to be told but the market is so noisy now, I don't think they will really get the coverage they deserve.

That has probably hindered growth of the exchanges as well. So many great stories.
Your ex-student list seems to be a who's who of top Betfair traders. :)
footysystems
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There was a suggestion Adam was a myth. Either that or was bloody good ?
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PDC
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Euler wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:11 pm
I actually went to Exeter university to speak to their maths society, but Adam was the only person from there to trade full time. The funny thing was that he wasn't in the audience that night!!

There have been quite a few high profile people I taught
I'd be curious to hear more about this part of the story as I haven't read about it anywhere.

For example, how did you and Adam end up 'together'?
Why did no one you actually spoke to at the society take up trading?
Why did he require teaching if he was a natural or was it more guidance?
When you talk about teaching people are you talking about the courses you offer or something more such as 1 to 1 tuition?
Etc etc

I'd think it would make for an interesting addition to the story told to date.
Euler wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:42 pm
There are loads of great stories to be told but the market is so noisy now, I don't think they will really get the coverage they deserve.

So many great personal stories.
Whatever happened to your plans to publish a book, if nothing else but to tell these stories? I'd have thought that would be the perfect medium through which to give them the coverage they deserve, especially given how much easier self publishing is now.

If a certain someone can put out a #1 Best seller then.....
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Kai
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:18 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:45 pm
Getting tips from top traders isn't going to make you a profitable trader.
Mmmm sort of depends. For me someone said do X, i did X and I've made a decent living from it now for coming up to 3yrs. But X was an entire methodology and mindset rather than 'exercise before work' or 'look for the fav being supported'.

Trouble is that being a good trader and being a good teach aren't even vaguely correlated, and neither is being enthusiastic and being a good student. Unfortunately most people who want to learn something don't understand how to learn, which is a skill in itself that you have to acquire before you even start with the difference between a back and a lay. Once you've learnt how to learn there's nothing you can't do.
Wanted to briefly touch on this topic again on a more serious note, since I've recently had a similar discussion with 2 aspiring traders.

Some good points overall but very much agree with Shaun there about learning how to learn, I do believe much of it ultimately comes down to having a good methodology, I think most of my long-winded posts were about the methodology itself. Gazuty's pinned guidance post is about methodology, this is what matters in my opinion, showing others how to find and create an edge, instead of sharing your own edge with others which everyone seemingly wants.

But I firmly believe there is no better teacher than the market, many people say on here how they're looking for mentors and stuff... By all means you can pick up tips and guidelines from others for a slightly smoother journey and some tips do indeed make you profitable depending on their size, but for me really it's not about what you can learn from others, it's about what you can learn by yourself, from the actual market.

Didn't really want to post this earlier to not take credit away from Peter who is probably the most eloquent teacher around with the biggest platform and many top traders have crossed his path etc, but I feel it's a really good example to get that point across. Sorry Peter! :)

Image

Have nothing against active mentoring but obviously it's not the same as finding your own way, you can't really take the credit for beating the market if you go full student mode without forming your own opinions.

At the risk of sounding cringe, is a mistake made more than once still a mistake or a decision at that point? As painful as some market lessons are, it's going to be more painful if we don't learn from them.
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JollyGreen
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Look out, JG is alive and kicking :lol:

Today is the first time visiting the forum in over a year. I saw Adam's name mentioned, and having read some of the comments, I wanted to add my two pence worth!

Peter and I discussed Adam's results, and I can say, hand on heart, it seemed to me he was going in-play. I believe Peter also felt the same, but I will let him confirm his opinion. You have to understand it was many years ago! I decided to contact Adam and get the answer from the horse's mouth; please forgive the pun. He agreed to meet me, and we became good friends. We shared ideas and were in touch daily. He saw the same patterns like me, but he saw them differently. We tried to explain our methods to one another, but it didn't make sense; we just couldn't put a definitive finger on it. I knew he was the real deal, and as many have said, he was a good guy with no aloofness or edge. We stayed good friends, but I lost contact with him when Covid struck.

He received a lot of criticism, and many called him a fake. The weirdest claim I read was when someone claimed they performed a forensic examination of his screenshots and the result showed the scratches on the screen matched those of "someone at Bet Angel!" They argued this for eternity but remained ignorant that a screenshot is electronic and no scratches would be present. :lol:

I remember when Adam called and asked my opinion on the first premium charge. I knew from his tone; it signalled a turning point in his trading career. Sadly, it did signify the beginning of the end.

I noticed Adam's comment about learning a lot himself and Peter's course offering broad trading coverage. I don't see it as a negative as it is similar to my point of view. I do credit Peter with pointing me in the right direction, and without his input, I would not have improved. Adam was the same; he took the knowledge from Peter and built on it. I never taught anyone to trade; I tried to help them understand the markets to improve. Sadly, too many students wanted a rote method, a one-size-fits-all approach, or the magical silver bullet. There is no magical method; you need to understand the markets and learn from errors. It helps if you have the foundations, but you must build on and learn. I have met very few people who can trade without fear, so many look for problems instead of solutions. They want no loss and zero risk, which isn't possible because you create risk when placing your first order. Adam was fearless, far more than me, and a better trader.

I hope he is okay; I know Covid hit his business hard.
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Euler
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JollyGreen wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:17 pm
Peter and I discussed Adam's results, and I can say, hand on heart, it seemed to me he was going in-play. I believe Peter also felt the same, but I will let him confirm his opinion. You have to understand it was many years ago!
I don't remember that. I met Adam quite a few times in the end when he became more than just a former student. So I remember those discussions with him about the market and trading styles.
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JollyGreen
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Euler wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:23 pm
JollyGreen wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:17 pm
Peter and I discussed Adam's results, and I can say, hand on heart, it seemed to me he was going in-play. I believe Peter also felt the same, but I will let him confirm his opinion. You have to understand it was many years ago!
I don't remember that. I met Adam quite a few times in the end when he became more than just a former student. So I remember those discussions with him about the market and trading styles.
As we just discussed, it was many years ago. I go upstairs now and cannot remember why :lol:
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Euler
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Kai wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:29 pm
Didn't really want to post this earlier to not take credit away from Peter who is probably the most eloquent teacher around with the biggest platform and many top traders have crossed his path etc, but I feel it's a really good example to get that point across. Sorry Peter! :)
I launched many traders careers and of course, kick started a lot by being on the scene first.

A few things I learnt about teaching others.

You teach best by telling people what to do and why. Most system sellers don't do this, they just set up a marketable product. With this in mind I spent most of my time teaching people how to trade and common trading styles and how you would apply them to the market and why. That means they could take things forward from there.

I also realised that everybody will see things slightly differently and have a different tolerance to risk. So I taught them about that as well. It's was proper teaching, not a fire and forget approach. It was something to build on from a trading perspective and from their own viewpoint.

I realise that while some will be gracious for the support I gave them others where split along the lines of whether they were successful or not. If they were, then it was probably their skill and if they were not it was my fault! :lol: Ultimately there comes a point where teaching stops and people need to take over. So I can't control that bit.

But having taught so many and supported them, I'm well aware of the sort of people there were and generally what they were doing in the market and why.
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Euler
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PDC wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:42 am
Whatever happened to your plans to publish a book, if nothing else but to tell these stories? I'd have thought that would be the perfect medium through which to give them the coverage they deserve, especially given how much easier self publishing is now.

If a certain someone can put out a #1 Best seller then.....
I probably will write a book at some point, but I'm still too busy actually doing it to devote the necessary time to write it. The coursebook was 300+ pages but as it's three years old now, needs a refresh.
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Kai
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But can one still really remain a 'student of the market' if they position themselves as a master/teacher?

It's a general question, and a genuine one at that, because this would imply that there is not much left to learn and not much potential left to reach and so on.
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Kai
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JollyGreen wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:17 pm
Today is the first time visiting the forum in over a year. I saw Adam's name mentioned, and having read some of the comments, I wanted to add my two pence worth!
Interesting bit of insight JG, thx for sharing.

Credit where due and that goes without saying, I just think that having very experienced traders as mentors is a ridiculous bit of luxury overall. On top of that, to then not appreciate it is nothing short of a travesty. It really is a shame to see how so many are unable to rise above petty scepticism and how they fall victim to their own confirmation bias, not to mention how often basic pettiness gets in the way of learning etc.

But this is in part why I believe that market is the best teacher period, EOD. To rephrase slightly, what is the market if not a hive collective of experienced trading minds, a collective that is practically teaching those on the other end of their trades/bets how to do it. And those of us that personalize those painful lessons are unlikely to learn anything, for me it's as simple as that.

I just think that a capable (trading) mind is going to get there eventually whether he has the world's best teacher or the world's worst teacher. No matter what mistakes he makes along the way, or which path he takes.
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Euler
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Kai wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:48 pm
But can one still really remain a 'student of the market' if they position themselves as a master/teacher?

It's a general question, and a genuine one at that, because this would imply that there is not much left to learn and not much potential left to reach and so on.
I don't really understand the question?

In the majority of your income is from not trading, then you will lose focus and your edge in double quick time. As many have proved.
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Kai
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Euler wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:59 pm
Kai wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:48 pm
But can one still really remain a 'student of the market' if they position themselves as a master/teacher?

It's a general question, and a genuine one at that, because this would imply that there is not much left to learn and not much potential left to reach and so on.
I don't really understand the question?

In the majority of your income is from not trading, then you will lose focus and your edge in double quick time. As many have proved.
Just meant in terms of mindset, whether it would be damaging towards the whole mindset. Since I'm sure some would argue that the moment people start teaching is the moment people stop learning etc. Sounds somewhat mutually exclusive, hence the question.
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