Aussie racing pics

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badgolfer
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:36 am

Spoke to a TAB employee last week about this. They are definitely using the Fair. Would advise avoiding all in running strategies as they have the fast stream monopolised. You simply can't beat that. Be a good question to ask Betfair at the next AGM.
Lutruwita
Posts: 544
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:54 pm

badgolfer wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:43 am
Spoke to a TAB employee last week about this. They are definitely using the Fair. Would advise avoiding all in running strategies as they have the fast stream monopolised. You simply can't beat that. Be a good question to ask Betfair at the next AGM.
There you go. Thankyou.
Wildly
Posts: 229
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:31 am
Location: Australia

badgolfer wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:43 am
Spoke to a TAB employee last week about this. They are definitely using the Fair. Would advise avoiding all in running strategies as they have the fast stream monopolised. You simply can't beat that. Be a good question to ask Betfair at the next AGM.
Hello (fellow) badgolfer,
Can you find from your source how long TAB have been using Betfair please ?
I'm sceptical at the suggestion that TAB have always had fast picture feed but only started using it to trade in July. If they were motivated to bet in the run, I don't think they would have needed Betfair permission. They could have had the trading account in an employee's name.
If the change is that Betfair now have access to the TAB fast picture feed, more likely the new in running betting is within Betfair.
badgolfer
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:36 am

As much as I'd love to, I can't really give anymore information as I don't want to risk anything anything vaguely identifying for them, they like their job and would prefer to keep it! However I will say that the Betfair feed is not the fastest TAB feed. You just need to look at the official start times on tabtouch.com.au (have to be on desktop site to view) and compare with the time Betfair are turning them inplay. TAB are ahead by a consistent 2-3 seconds every time. There's some useful info about what the TAB have at their disposal in the following link.

https://www.midwich.com.au/solutions/ca ... av-fitout/

Tabcorp’s Raceday control room is the operational wagering hub, controlling parimutuel (tote) wagering across thoroughbred, harness and greyhound races. In 2017, Raceday controlled more than 125,000 domestic and international races.

This involves monitoring and disseminating all racing information for up to 60 race meetings daily. The team’s primary focus is to uphold the integrity of each race controlled, by stopping betting at the exact moment the race commences, then paying out on the correct numbers as declared by relevant governing racing bodies (stewards). Sounds easy but the implications for getting it wrong are astronomical. In the rare instance a race is not closed at the commencement of the race or the result is paid out on the incorrect numbers, the team is in breach of the company’s licence and must declare this as a Significant Event to the relevant regulators

At the rear of the room, senior Raceday team members pay attention to the big picture. A 4x2 46-inch Samsung video wall shows Sky 1 and Sky 2 race meet video along with sources from Tabcorp’s IPTV sources. These might include raw footage from the race meetings.

Along with Sky TV and PC feeds, the server handles over 100 channels of in-house IPTV.
Trader23
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:14 am

There is a thread on Twitter discussing this today- plenty of signs pointing to betfair employees using the live feed to trade which has in turn ruined the in play markets as we know and made some people turn their bots off. Sounds like a few betfair employees in on it hence all the questions have fallen on deaf ears.

Search the Twitter handle @JPereira1974 and hav a read/ have some input. The more noise made the better and hopefully it can be resolved and go back to what it was before this happened!
Trader23
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Heisenberg etc^ and anyone else that has been involved here
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Heisenberg
Posts: 74
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Trader23 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:28 am
Heisenberg etc^ and anyone else that has been involved here
Interesting, many thanks for the heads up.

However I still don't believe it's Betfair for a number of reasons...

- I'm no lawyer but I believe trading on their own markets would be contrary to their conditions as Australian licence holders (and would most likely be illegal as well). Yes it's possible that they could obfuscate the source of the trades but all it would take is one of the many people that would need to be involved to squeal to the regulators and poof, Aus licence (worth hundreds of millions to them) gone. It's not worth it for the relative pittance they would make.

- BF are suspending 2-3 seconds after the jump (closer to 3 seconds lately). If we are to assume they are suspending as quickly as possible based on their feed, they are WAY behind whoever is dominating the in-play markets. Myself and others had a sub 2 second feed up until the end of July and we were still getting smashed. So our feed was quicker than BF's feed, based on the available evidence, and we were still behind the 8 ball. Tracksiders may account for a tiny portion of this, but this is every track in every corner of the country while everything was in lockdown.

- They would know that this is going to kill the IP markets (it's well on the way already), why would you cannibalise your own product? Is 6 months worth of creaming the IP worth destroying your product and alienating a good portion of your customer base?

I just don't think it's BF, it doesn't add up. Yes the timing of the acquisition of the faster feed matches up, just don't forget there were 2 parties in that arrangement. It's perfectly legal for Tabcorp to bet with a competitor, they most definitely have access to the fastest possible feeds (3 seconds quicker than BF apparently has) and why would they care if they destroyed a competitors market in the search for a quick buck. Costs them nothing outside of employing a few dedicated traders on a casual basis. Let me put it this way, if you gave me $1.10 on Tabcorp being the IP gun, I'd empty my wallet to take it.
Last edited by Heisenberg on Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Naffman
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This new player has even made me (v. small in-play bettor) give up on in-running as someone is just cleaning up - and I agree if this is BF I'd be very surprised.
spreadbetting
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Naffman wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:43 am
This new player has even made me (v. small in-play bettor) give up on in-running as someone is just cleaning up - and I agree if this is BF I'd be very surprised.
I've dropped my 'bot's volume dramatically near the off too, I'd guess many people will be doing the same in running. Hopefully things will rectify themselves once the covid situation gets better as I was told they don't have the staff on course anymore, whether that's Betfair's or some outsourced firm handling their starts/suspensions I'm not sure.
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Heisenberg
Posts: 74
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They've never had staff on course in Australia, the country is simply too big and there are many hundreds of tracks. They've always suspended off the Foxtel feed (as per my account manager) until 2/3 months ago when they finally got access to a better feed.
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Heisenberg
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This is the response I got before they changed to the 'no comment' policy....

"We have listened to our customers and we are improving our market operations tools which includes a faster Sky Racing feed. In the past Betfair was utilising the Sky feed that is available on Foxtel.

With the improvement of the Sky Racing feed Betfair can manage racing markets more efficiently which will see a better overall service for our customers.

This stream is a paid corporate subscription you would need to contact Sky Racing to see if this service is available to individual customers"
spreadbetting
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Heisenberg wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:10 pm
They've never had staff on course in Australia, the country is simply too big and there are many hundreds of tracks. They've always suspended off the Foxtel feed (as per my account manager) until 2/3 months ago when they finally got access to a better feed.
Thanks.

I keep meaning to write a simple script to log the Betfair inplay off/suspend times and compare against the offical off times and race time but still havent got round to it. Be good to see if there are courses that stand out like a sore thumb or if all times are out by a few seconds.
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Heisenberg
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I've done it manually with a decent sample size and they are all pretty much identical except for where the red light isn't very visible in which case allow up to another second or so. Obviously the BF suspend guys are quite reliant on the red light letting them know they are about to go. When it's not visible it can occasionally catch them a bit off guard.
spreadbetting
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What sort of times were you getting? And does it seem to have improved at all as things got a lot worse a few months ago for me.
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Heisenberg
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2-3 seconds, trending more towards 3 in the past week or two. Previously it averaged 6.

There are virtually no big BSP blips when favoured runners miss the start now (except in harness racing which is unavoidable) but the trade off is that in-play is now a total write off for the most part.
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