I hope you didn't mean that literally?
If you can't walk away from this then you have much bigger problems than just being unable to read a market
Trading What I see !?
Probably!Trader Pat wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:20 pmI hope you didn't mean that literally?
If you can't walk away from this then you have much bigger problems than just being unable to read a market
That was more or less my point in the previous suggestion. If you want to be a trader, WHY did that happen WHAT did you learn.
Losses are part and parcel of trading. Understand why one happened and you can keep on working to minimise them. Profits come along in roughly equal proportion, so focusing on minimise losses and you are half the way to becoming a trader.
Having a positive attitude, understanding people profit from trading and believing you at least have a chance of joining them can make a big difference and help you spot opportunities that you wouldn't otherwise.goat68 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:44 pmProbably!Trader Pat wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:20 pmI hope you didn't mean that literally?
If you can't walk away from this then you have much bigger problems than just being unable to read a market
The thread below illustrates a 'can't do it' attitude. It was before my time but I stumbled across it and Peter touched upon it on on of his psychology vids.
viewtopic.php?p=127856#p127856
Nice one Derek, I know Peters video but hadn't seen this actual thread, and unfortunately I do relate to the chap...Derek27 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:58 pmHaving a positive attitude, understanding people profit from trading and believing you at least have a chance of joining them can make a big difference and help you spot opportunities that you wouldn't otherwise.goat68 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:44 pmProbably!Trader Pat wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:20 pm
I hope you didn't mean that literally?
If you can't walk away from this then you have much bigger problems than just being unable to read a market
The thread below illustrates a 'can't do it' attitude. It was before my time but I stumbled across it and Peter touched upon it on on of his psychology vids.
viewtopic.php?p=127856#p127856
I can also relate to, and probably not the best thing to admit, but I do have a negative nature to myself, and I am not sure how easy that is to fix as it is well embedded...
I do have some points to make about Peters sine wave graph, in that markets are rarely like that. They can typically get to the top of that sine wave and just keep going up and up.....
Or they start to head back up from the bottom get half way up then shoot down below the bottom again....
My +1 -3 attempt was a bit stupid, but my reason was a hope it would control my losses. My methods at the moment always end with losses 1.5x bigger than my wins, get a few of those in a row like 5 the other day, and there's loads of your profit gone that I've worked so hard for...
What I need us a method with losses half my average win or there abouts.... but not sure how to achieve that with pre race horses where the flow is so random...?
I'm also still just basing trading decisions on the chart, I get very little info from the ladder other than instantaneous momentum that typically lasts about 5 seconds and tells me nothing about impending swing trends...
Winge finished, see negative in nature......!!
No hope for me... Darn and again!
Majority of the time I see no WHY as to why a horse suddenly went one direction or another! Random mix of traders involved.Euler wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:53 pmThat was more or less my point in the previous suggestion. If you want to be a trader, WHY did that happen WHAT did you learn.
Losses are part and parcel of trading. Understand why one happened and you can keep on working to minimise them. Profits come along in roughly equal proportion, so focusing on minimise losses and you are half the way to becoming a trader.
If it's any hope to you, I had a very negative attitude when I was younger, possibly caused by my lack of success with women (in hindsight, it was probably the other way around
) but it hasn't stopped me from becoming a confident trader. I can't seem to get more than about 5ticks on winning trade typically, which means I'd need a stop of 2-3 ticks and that's going to kill my win rate...
So I need 10tick swings and 5tick stop, and at least a 33% win rate. And that's all out at -5 or +10 so no scaling. If I scale out say half at +5, then my AVG win is then 7.5, I then need about 40+%
So I need 10tick swings and 5tick stop, and at least a 33% win rate. And that's all out at -5 or +10 so no scaling. If I scale out say half at +5, then my AVG win is then 7.5, I then need about 40+%
A negative attitude never helps but I fully empathise as I am exactly the same most days after being at this for 2 years. I have had some rough days trading recently but I feel like after some reviewing I am beginning to read the market better and see things in a different light, so despite losing a lot of money with some stupid mistakes, it is an overall positive step. Personally I had a great day yesterday and then a poor day today with some strange moves in the market.
I can't emphasize enough how much people underestimate trading, thinking that the pre-off markets of today with many experienced traders involved can be beaten in a few months or even a year, only to give up after losing a lot of money. If I could back and give myself advice when I first started I would shake myself hard and say "there is no way you can crack this in 2 years you idiot, so use practice mode and manage your bank as much as possible until you have at least 2 years or 10,000 markets experience". Doing that would have saved me a grand or nine. I'm just hoping that becomes my tuition fee for something great
I can't emphasize enough how much people underestimate trading, thinking that the pre-off markets of today with many experienced traders involved can be beaten in a few months or even a year, only to give up after losing a lot of money. If I could back and give myself advice when I first started I would shake myself hard and say "there is no way you can crack this in 2 years you idiot, so use practice mode and manage your bank as much as possible until you have at least 2 years or 10,000 markets experience". Doing that would have saved me a grand or nine. I'm just hoping that becomes my tuition fee for something great
Last edited by alexmr2 on Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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speedyhamster
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I've not kept up much with this thread, I've seen some beautiful nuggets come along though, my personal favourite "the market literally breathes in and out." I can't quote the other one word for word & I've skimmed back through and can't seem to find it but there are a few.
My point in posting is because I struggle personally with randomness. Most people turn up to the trading world and pick scalping, see that horse markets are popular and begin their journey of developing their new found strategy into gold.
This is where the first layer of the randomness onion is peeled, we start looking for them magical signals at magical times and magical odds... we become convinced that the market has a fixed set of characteristics, that play out time and time again, but the very name of this thread makes me think you know that this isn't true.
Probability & randomness is where its at. The pre off markets have a tonne of different variables that differ from race to race, day to day, week to week & month to month. The horse, jockey, ground, distance, runners, grade, course, flat, jumps and on and on.
Each market has its own characteristics and can probably be traded in multiple ways with multiple strategies, some better than others but its the probability of that strategy working in that market based on the characteristics that you see that counts. Its the reality right infront of your eyes & knowing how to deal with it. Its not the story you heard between your eyes,. Its whats before them that counts.... that quote I think would work well here... generic actions, generic results,.I can't quote it.
Anyway, after my late night ramble and my long story of random markets,.why do I struggle with this if I know that? Its because I can't keep my fingers out of the way. I always want to be acting upon something and its become my biggest downfall.
I havent taken the time to do things methodically and learn one approach for one set of characteristics and build upon that foundation.
I think you may be doing the same, you're over trading and trying to make a glove fit the wrong hand.
I feel mine is almost a learned behaviour now and it'll take a lot to turn myself around, don't quit so early on, make the necessary changes and learn from your mistakes.
Best of luck.
My point in posting is because I struggle personally with randomness. Most people turn up to the trading world and pick scalping, see that horse markets are popular and begin their journey of developing their new found strategy into gold.
This is where the first layer of the randomness onion is peeled, we start looking for them magical signals at magical times and magical odds... we become convinced that the market has a fixed set of characteristics, that play out time and time again, but the very name of this thread makes me think you know that this isn't true.
Probability & randomness is where its at. The pre off markets have a tonne of different variables that differ from race to race, day to day, week to week & month to month. The horse, jockey, ground, distance, runners, grade, course, flat, jumps and on and on.
Each market has its own characteristics and can probably be traded in multiple ways with multiple strategies, some better than others but its the probability of that strategy working in that market based on the characteristics that you see that counts. Its the reality right infront of your eyes & knowing how to deal with it. Its not the story you heard between your eyes,. Its whats before them that counts.... that quote I think would work well here... generic actions, generic results,.I can't quote it.
Anyway, after my late night ramble and my long story of random markets,.why do I struggle with this if I know that? Its because I can't keep my fingers out of the way. I always want to be acting upon something and its become my biggest downfall.
I havent taken the time to do things methodically and learn one approach for one set of characteristics and build upon that foundation.
I think you may be doing the same, you're over trading and trying to make a glove fit the wrong hand.
I feel mine is almost a learned behaviour now and it'll take a lot to turn myself around, don't quit so early on, make the necessary changes and learn from your mistakes.
Best of luck.
"pre race markets when flow is so random"
The markets are not random when you enter a trade at the correct time with correct price, just takes time alot of time to study markets.
Not every market will go you're way even with above criteria but that is when controlling you're losses should come into play and very quickly.
If you entered a market and you're trade isn't making money ask yourself a question immediately"why am I hanging about this trade?" Get out imagine it's a burning building.
I'm approx 3yrs in and I can say it's not been easy but you do and will learn perseverance is key.
Hope this aids you@ goat
The markets are not random when you enter a trade at the correct time with correct price, just takes time alot of time to study markets.
Not every market will go you're way even with above criteria but that is when controlling you're losses should come into play and very quickly.
If you entered a market and you're trade isn't making money ask yourself a question immediately"why am I hanging about this trade?" Get out imagine it's a burning building.
I'm approx 3yrs in and I can say it's not been easy but you do and will learn perseverance is key.
Hope this aids you@ goat
Thanks for all the ideas chaps
And just to answer Trader Pat's comment about me keeping coming back to this, it's partly because as someone commented a while back, I don't want to be one of those 6 month threads that then disappears.....
And just to answer Trader Pat's comment about me keeping coming back to this, it's partly because as someone commented a while back, I don't want to be one of those 6 month threads that then disappears.....