Turn off your monkey brain: Don't go In play

[Trader Pat]

I've seen a bunch of threads recently about people struggling not to go in play.

Firstly, don't go in-play. It's stupid and will always blow up your bank. There are a million posts on this thread why that will happen.

Secondly, if you don't trust your monkey brain, install this safety from Dallas.
viewtopic.php?t=15199

I use it every race on every meeting on every computer (as a safety, not to save me from my monkey brain)

Please: use this and save us all from the all the 'I'm a dunce, I blew up my bank, I need to work on my psychology' posts.

Here it is again: viewtopic.php?t=15199

I think the thread you're referring to is the one by Newcomer where he talks about his struggles with not being able to stop himself going in play. Unfortunately Anbell your post here shows you have no idea where he's coming from and like most who haven't experienced this problem its impossible to understand it. A safety servant will not stop you going in play if you really want to. I've been there, the urge to do it is completely irrational most of the time and before, during and after you do it it makes no sense at all and you cant explain why you did it. I and others reached out and told our stories of overcoming it so he knows its possible to do.

One of the things I love about this forum is that people can post about the issues holding them back, whether its technical, mental or something else and generally get some positive feedback or advice. As many others have said if you don't like a thread on the forum nobody is forcing you to read it.

[Kai]

Anbell just wants to help if possible, like most people on here, there's always somebody around that hasn't heard it before. Shouldn't really get any stick for it, especially on the topic that's as old as time itself It's just one of the many circlejerks on the forum.

Even before I placed my first bets on prerace I was already bombarded by these warnings everywhere I looked, so much so that all these negative connotations about the inplay market made me completely ignore it for years, there's probably still people around that think it's a market for degenerate gamblers only. Took me a long time to have a proper objective look at it and I probably wouldn't even have done it on my own accord, only to find that it's a market like any other and a damn good one as well, I even think it's the better one of the two racing markets.

Just saying that the brain can sometimes forget that all these warning are in the context of prerace, the full version would be "Don't go inplay, if you are trading prerace".

[jimibt]

Just saying that the brain can sometimes forget that all these warning are in the context of prerace, the full version would be "Don't go inplay, if you are trading prerace".

+1, that is EXACTLY the point here... i do actually wonder at times if people do seperate the mentality of both fully and instead, count IP markets as a kind of extended PRE race fallback. the mechanics of each desrves the full attention of the life that thyey have, but straying from PRe to the *afterlife* (unless intending to go on a ghost hunt) is gonna get scary.

[Kai]

Just saying that the brain can sometimes forget that all these warning are in the context of prerace, the full version would be "Don't go inplay, if you are trading prerace".

+1, that is EXACTLY the point here... i do actually wonder at times if people do seperate the mentality of both fully and instead, count IP markets as a kind of extended PRE race fallback. the mechanics of each desrves the full attention of the life that thyey have, but straying from PRe to the *afterlife* (unless intending to go on a ghost hunt) is gonna get scary.

Conveniently the inplay market starts soon as the prerace market finishes That's the unfortunate part, how many people on here have asked for a loss recovery system in recent months Jim? I remember a few

Can you imagine what happens to the brain when when it does that for a few times and it actually works? Makes getting rid of that habit slightly harder

[jimibt]

Just saying that the brain can sometimes forget that all these warning are in the context of prerace, the full version would be "Don't go inplay, if you are trading prerace".

+1, that is EXACTLY the point here... i do actually wonder at times if people do seperate the mentality of both fully and instead, count IP markets as a kind of extended PRE race fallback. the mechanics of each desrves the full attention of the life that thyey have, but straying from PRe to the *afterlife* (unless intending to go on a ghost hunt) is gonna get scary.

Conveniently the inplay market starts soon as the prerace market finishes That's the unfortunate part, how many people on here have asked for a loss recovery system in recent months Jim? I remember a few

Can you imagine what happens to the brain when when it does that for a few times and it actually works? Makes getting rid of that habit slightly harder

aye!!

[rik]

in my opinion its too prevalent that people are blaming lack of long term profitability on discipline issues / going in play
letting trades run isnt negative expected value apart from a bit of comission, just increases variance way too much as trading stakes generally a lot bigger than betting stakes
if your down or break even over many months/years the likely problem is lack of a proper edge
therefore trying to create an artificial one by chancing losing trades and blaming it on that
you probably got lucky a few times before the longshot lay won, its better to have a smooth graph and letting trades run without reason messes with your stats, adds unnecessary variance but 98% of people blaming going inplay for everything, lack a consistent edge in the first place

[spreadbetting]

in my opinion its too prevalent that people are blaming lack of long term profitability on discipline issues / going in play
letting trades run isnt negative expected value apart from a bit of comission, just increases variance way too much as trading stakes generally a lot bigger than betting stakes
if your down or break even over many months/years the likely problem is lack of a proper edge
therefore trying to create an artificial one by chancing losing trades and blaming it on that
you probably got lucky a few times before the longshot lay won, its better to have a smooth graph and letting trades run without reason messes with your stats, adds unnecessary variance but 98% of people blaming going inplay for everything, lack a consistent edge in the first place

People always want to find an easy scapegoat for why they haven't cracked it, they assume they're so close and if only they could stop going inplay they'd be winning, they convieniently forget the times going in running has paid off for them. But there's no doubt going in running never pays off for the majority as they close out far too early and let reds run far too long, creating bad habits that become very hard to break.

Even long time traders can't avoid going in play at times so god knows how newbies think they'll be able to stop it completely. You just have to accept sometimes you get caught out and plan for it and that just means having a consistent approach for every time it occurs. Usually best to green/red out as soon as the market opens in running. The longer you try and think about how the race is going the more likely you'll end up with some optimistic view, or panic, and make things much worse. Far better just to accept the inrunning red, or if lucky green, and realise in the long run these things usually even up far better than they would if you use your pre off race reading skills on an in running market.

[Derek27]

in my opinion its too prevalent that people are blaming lack of long term profitability on discipline issues / going in play
letting trades run isnt negative expected value apart from a bit of comission, just increases variance way too much as trading stakes generally a lot bigger than betting stakes
if your down or break even over many months/years the likely problem is lack of a proper edge
therefore trying to create an artificial one by chancing losing trades and blaming it on that
you probably got lucky a few times before the longshot lay won, its better to have a smooth graph and letting trades run without reason messes with your stats, adds unnecessary variance but 98% of people blaming going inplay for everything, lack a consistent edge in the first place

The Kelly criterion proves that even if you have an edge, overstaking (which is what you're doing if you let trades go inplay) will result in loss. That said, many people will mistake going inplay as their only obstacle, rather then their biggest obstacle in the way of success.

[Kai]

That's exactly why inplay liquidity is in complete shambles, because of threads like these!

in my opinion its too prevalent that people are blaming lack of long term profitability on discipline issues / going in play...
98% of people blaming going inplay for everything, lack a consistent edge in the first place

Very good point, that's why I always say edge trumps (whoops) everything, including discipline. Think I wrote some long-winded posts on that very topic to get my opinion across in full.

I can only compare what my brain was thinking pre-edge and post-edge. In a nutshell pre-edge brain often had a hard time accepting a bigger loss and tried to weasel out of it in many ways because it didn't have the confidence that he can recover those losses, it saw them as too big of a setback and deemed them unacceptable . While post-edge brain finds it much easier to accept the occasional cockup or whatever, and is barely even tempted to do something stupid, because it has plenty of confidence in recovering from such results so it sort of becomes a normal part of trading.

Let's face it, going inplay is just one of the many ways that people try to avoid losses and refuse to take responsibility. Some do it by doubling up on a bad trade, or heavily overstaking, or chasing losses on next random markets and so on.

[jimibt]

That's exactly why inplay liquidity is in complete shambles, because of threads like these!

in my opinion its too prevalent that people are blaming lack of long term profitability on discipline issues / going in play...
98% of people blaming going inplay for everything, lack a consistent edge in the first place

Very good point, that's why I always say edge trumps (whoops) everything, including discipline. Think I wrote some long-winded posts on that very topic to get my opinion across in full.

I can only compare what my brain was thinking pre-edge and post-edge. In a nutshell pre-edge brain often had a hard time accepting a bigger loss and tried to weasel out of it in many ways because it didn't have the confidence that he can recover those losses, it saw them as too big of a setback and deemed them unacceptable . While post-edge brain finds it much easier to accept the occasional cockup or whatever, and is barely even tempted to do something stupid, because it has plenty of confidence in recovering from such results so it sort of becomes a normal part of trading.

Let's face it, going inplay is just one of the many ways that people try to avoid losses and refuse to take responsibility. Some do it by doubling up on a bad trade, or heavily overstaking, or chasing losses on next random markets and so on.

perfect post to close the whole topic and one that should be a sticky! (the summing up!!)

[The Silk Run]

Bet Angels Risky SUNAK. Live dangerously IP ...

[Anbell]

I've seen a bunch of threads recently about people struggling not to go in play.

Firstly, don't go in-play. It's stupid and will always blow up your bank. There are a million posts on this thread why that will happen.

Secondly, if you don't trust your monkey brain, install this safety from Dallas.
viewtopic.php?t=15199

I use it every race on every meeting on every computer (as a safety, not to save me from my monkey brain)

Please: use this and save us all from the all the 'I'm a dunce, I blew up my bank, I need to work on my psychology' posts.

Here it is again: viewtopic.php?t=15199

I think the thread you're referring to is the one by Newcomer where he talks about his struggles with not being able to stop himself going in play. Unfortunately Anbell your post here shows you have no idea where he's coming from and like most who haven't experienced this problem its impossible to understand it. A safety servant will not stop you going in play if you really want to. I've been there, the urge to do it is completely irrational most of the time and before, during and after you do it it makes no sense at all and you cant explain why you did it. I and others reached out and told our stories of overcoming it so he knows its possible to do.

One of the things I love about this forum is that people can post about the issues holding them back, whether its technical, mental or something else and generally get some positive feedback or advice. As many others have said if you don't like a thread on the forum nobody is forcing you to read it.

I apologise if it was taken this way, the post was meant to be ADVICE about using a safety, not tut-tutting.

[Trader Pat]

I've seen a bunch of threads recently about people struggling not to go in play.

Firstly, don't go in-play. It's stupid and will always blow up your bank. There are a million posts on this thread why that will happen.

Secondly, if you don't trust your monkey brain, install this safety from Dallas.
viewtopic.php?t=15199

I use it every race on every meeting on every computer (as a safety, not to save me from my monkey brain)

Please: use this and save us all from the all the 'I'm a dunce, I blew up my bank, I need to work on my psychology' posts.

Here it is again: viewtopic.php?t=15199

I think the thread you're referring to is the one by Newcomer where he talks about his struggles with not being able to stop himself going in play. Unfortunately Anbell your post here shows you have no idea where he's coming from and like most who haven't experienced this problem its impossible to understand it. A safety servant will not stop you going in play if you really want to. I've been there, the urge to do it is completely irrational most of the time and before, during and after you do it it makes no sense at all and you cant explain why you did it. I and others reached out and told our stories of overcoming it so he knows its possible to do.

One of the things I love about this forum is that people can post about the issues holding them back, whether its technical, mental or something else and generally get some positive feedback or advice. As many others have said if you don't like a thread on the forum nobody is forcing you to read it.

I apologise if it was taken this way, the post was meant to be ADVICE about using a safety, not tut-tutting.

Same I probably overreacted a touch.

After having that issue myself it can be annoying when people dismiss it and say just dont do it! Its a bit like like telling a smoker to just stop smoking.

[Kai]

When you're staring at a loss and the market is about to go inplay

[Naffman]

When you're staring at a loss and the market is about to go inplay