Enough is enough - time to admit defeat.

[xtrader16]

Is there traders who consistently profit from in running?

I've been focusing heavily for the past 6 months. All I seem to read is things like "eventually you lose or you could write on the back of a stamp the amount of people who are profitable from in running"

I got on ok with pre race but I started to self doubt. Maybe I just needed to spend more time in the markets.

It's after watching a few of peter's videos where he asks things like "when you win how much do you win? And when you loose how much do you lose?" A decent strike rate may not make up for a few bad runs in play.

I can see that it does take discipline eg don't try & make something happen or just lay a random horse. Get your one click buttons set up to make use of servants if you spot a B2L or L2B

Will inplay become harder once the crowds are back on course?

To profit consistently from In Running horse racing you need to be a form expert with extensive notes on every horse in the race. In Running profits are 95% research and 5% execution.

It can be done, and the profits are huge and fast but again you must control your risk. I was in a In Running group on line run by somebody who I considered to be the best form analyst in the UK and believe me you need to be dedicated to that form book and watch 100 replays a day and keep extensive notes on how a horse runs.

This fella (initials AR) could talk you through how a race would play out and he would nail it 70% of the time. When you are hitting 8.0 to 3.0 and they go on to win you don’t need to many of those be earning big money.

95% research 5% execution.

[Derek27]

What a strange opening post

He claims he's making money on football, but is saying goodbye because he's struggling on horses......so what!!

I've always struggled with horses. The only horse races I trade are the classics and Group 1. I'm self-employed through football and other sports.

Why would you walk away?
Something seems amiss

Not so strange to be honest. I have always wanted to trade Horse Racing as that is where the real money is. Races are every 10 minutes (or 8 nowadays for some reason), football matches on TV are 5-6 per week. I have got a football trading strategy that returns 3-7% of initial stake and the risk is close to zero but I find it difficult watching 90 minutes of football at times. Bores me to death.

I want to be a Horse Racing trader. It has turned from a challenge into an obsession. I know as much as most traders but for some reason I cannot put it all together, it is highly frustrating. I cannot see me giving up or taking a break I am 99% there.

There's something very strange xtrader. You say in the thread title and opening post you've tried everything, cannot make a profit, enough is enough and time to admit defeat, now you're saying despite being unprofitable, you're 99% there and cannot see yourself giving up!

Realistically, once you've reached the stage where you're making a profit you've got quite a long way to go from there. Have you thought about sticking to football and increasing your stakes?

It's a double-edged sword. There are some very weak horse racing markets and some big liquidity football matches, and vice-versa.

[xtrader16]

'm not sure why we dont have a Twitter account that people can engage in that is private and for only people in the forum. It would be for people who are still learning if people who are highly profitable wanted to join that is fine as well.

does that not defeat one of the leading purposes of this forum?

The difference between a 'Live Chat Room' such as a Twitter or Slack account (slack would be better)is that people can talk interact with each other and the information is disregarded in the short term. So, 3-4 traders could be discussing something between each other and bouncing ideas and working things out rather than sitting at home alone.

The forum is a knowledge base. What Dallas does is beyond exceptional and he could not be more helpful, we all appreciate that no doubt but most 'conversations' are lost in the archives. The information Dallas provides is locked in for the long term.

I think if there were a Slack trading room people would be talking to each other at different times of the day. If I was trading football at 19:45 Kick off I might be talking to somebody from 18:00 about what I wanted to do. or pre horse racing going through the races from 10:00am. I doubt this would appeal to people who are already successful as they wouldn't want to give their ideas away but it would benefit 'novice traders' who are still learning and the information is only withheld by the individual not the app.

Slack - Short term learning and conversation.
Forum - Long term learning and detailed information/guidance.

and if you don’t want to use it just don't join in. We should give it a go and only Bet Angel subscribers can join.

[Derek27]

Is there traders who consistently profit from in running?

I've been focusing heavily for the past 6 months. All I seem to read is things like "eventually you lose or you could write on the back of a stamp the amount of people who are profitable from in running"

I got on ok with pre race but I started to self doubt. Maybe I just needed to spend more time in the markets.

It's after watching a few of peter's videos where he asks things like "when you win how much do you win? And when you loose how much do you lose?" A decent strike rate may not make up for a few bad runs in play.

I can see that it does take discipline eg don't try & make something happen or just lay a random horse. Get your one click buttons set up to make use of servants if you spot a B2L or L2B

Will inplay become harder once the crowds are back on course?

To profit consistently from In Running horse racing you need to be a form expert with extensive notes on every horse in the race. In Running profits are 95% research and 5% execution.

It can be done, and the profits are huge and fast but again you must control your risk. I was in a In Running group on line run by somebody who I considered to be the best form analyst in the UK and believe me you need to be dedicated to that form book and watch 100 replays a day and keep extensive notes on how a horse runs.

This fella (initials AR) could talk you through how a race would play out and he would nail it 70% of the time. When you are hitting 8.0 to 3.0 and they go on to win you don’t need to many of those be earning big money.

95% research 5% execution.

If a grandmaster tells you, the only way to mate in 3 is bishop D5, you can trust him, he's analysed all the lines to draw that conclusion.

But when it comes to more worldly things with more possible events than a game of chess, like, the only possible way to win IP is to be a form expert, he really means that's the only way he knows how to win. I'm sure botters will have spotted profitable trends, knowledgable traders will be spotting potential overreactions and playing the probability game rather then determining value, etc.

[Derek27]

does that not defeat one of the leading purposes of this forum?

The difference between a 'Live Chat Room' such as a Twitter or Slack account (slack would be better)is that people can talk interact with each other and the information is disregarded in the short term. So, 3-4 traders could be discussing something between each other and bouncing ideas and working things out rather than sitting at home alone.

The forum is a knowledge base. What Dallas does is beyond exceptional and he could not be more helpful, we all appreciate that no doubt but most 'conversations' are lost in the archives. The information Dallas provides is locked in for the long term.

I think if there were a Slack trading room people would be talking to each other at different times of the day. If I was trading football at 19:45 Kick off I might be talking to somebody from 18:00 about what I wanted to do. or pre horse racing going through the races from 10:00am. I doubt this would appeal to people who are already successful as they wouldn't want to give their ideas away but it would benefit 'novice traders' who are still learning and the information is only withheld by the individual not the app.

Slack - Short term learning and conversation.
Forum - Long term learning and detailed information/guidance.

and if you don’t want to use it just don't join in. We should give it a go and only Bet Angel subscribers can join.

I've just quoted that post correctly for you as it appeared I was quoting your text.

[xtrader16]

What a strange opening post

He claims he's making money on football, but is saying goodbye because he's struggling on horses......so what!!

I've always struggled with horses. The only horse races I trade are the classics and Group 1. I'm self-employed through football and other sports.

Why would you walk away?
Something seems amiss

Not so strange to be honest. I have always wanted to trade Horse Racing as that is where the real money is. Races are every 10 minutes (or 8 nowadays for some reason), football matches on TV are 5-6 per week. I have got a football trading strategy that returns 3-7% of initial stake and the risk is close to zero but I find it difficult watching 90 minutes of football at times. Bores me to death.

I want to be a Horse Racing trader. It has turned from a challenge into an obsession. I know as much as most traders but for some reason I cannot put it all together, it is highly frustrating. I cannot see me giving up or taking a break I am 99% there.

There's something very strange xtrader. You say in the thread title and opening post you've tried everything, cannot make a profit, enough is enough and time to admit defeat, now you're saying despite being unprofitable, you're 99% there and cannot see yourself giving up!

Realistically, once you've reached the stage where you're making a profit you've got quite a long way to go from there. Have you thought about sticking to football and increasing your stakes?

It's a double-edged sword. There are some very weak horse racing markets and some big liquidity football matches, and vice-versa.

My opening post was out of sheer frustration with todays markets. I've calmed down a bit now and I'm reassessing my situation.

“You never fail until you stop trying.”

Al be back.

[xtrader16]

Take this thread as an example. I created it out of sheer frustration, we have had a little discussion about the pro & cons of trading and it amounts to very little in terms of information to be retained for future learners. It should really be deleted from the forum as I doubt it has much value short or long term but it will be retained in a long list of threads which are very similar.

If these conversation were had in Slack or a Live chat service. It would enhance the quality of the Forum and make the information stored in it of higher value and easier to access for when we need to learn something important like automation.

[Tetras]

Take this thread as an example. I created it out of sheer frustration, we have had a little discussion about the pro & cons of trading and it amounts to very little in terms of information to be retained for future learners. It should really be deleted from the forum as I doubt it has much value short or long term but it will be retained in a long list of threads which are very similar.

If these conversation were had in Slack or a Live chat service. It would enhance the quality of the Forum and make the information stored in it of higher value and easier to access for when we need to learn something important like automation.

I think there's a lot of value in these kind of threads, but it is hard to be direct when the losing trader is not specific about their losses. That's not a reference to you specifically, if you were to share videos that would be helpful in having more to comment on.

[xtrader16]

I think there's a lot of value in these kind of threads, but it is hard to be direct when the losing trader is not specific about their losses. That's not a reference to you specifically, if you were to share videos that would be helpful in having more to comment on.
[/quote]

I wasn't aware you could upload video in the forum. You could on Slack though.

[alexmr2]

I am in a similar position to you. I started learning about trading pre-off in June 2018 and have been practising this full time, almost every day for 26 months now. I've spent thousands of hours and my account is £10k in the red.

I have had help from someone but often feel no better than day 1 when the markets start beating me up. I've had many good days but twice as many bad days. I thought I had cracked it about 50 times only to lose all the profit and more the next day. I don't want to give up yet but I would hate to be in the same position this time next year and the year after with an even bigger 5 figure red

[eightbo]

Is there traders who consistently profit from in running?

I've been focusing heavily for the past 6 months. All I seem to read is things like "eventually you lose or you could write on the back of a stamp the amount of people who are profitable from in running"

I got on ok with pre race but I started to self doubt. Maybe I just needed to spend more time in the markets.

It's after watching a few of peter's videos where he asks things like "when you win how much do you win? And when you loose how much do you lose?" A decent strike rate may not make up for a few bad runs in play.

I can see that it does take discipline eg don't try & make something happen or just lay a random horse. Get your one click buttons set up to make use of servants if you spot a B2L or L2B

Will inplay become harder once the crowds are back on course?

hi mate. very much possible.
as you say; dial down your size so that your worst outcomes are only a small % of the bankroll.
perfectly possible to just trade the order flow and profit without LV bu
I know a geezer who just looks for one horse to lay each race and that's his edge, another who is backing strong travellers if the price is right, me i'm trading order flow and only using LV for additional entry/exit/cancel signals.
You also want to decrease liability as the race goes on in anticipation of the increased volatility to level out your risk. If you set up audio cues to go off at certain %'s through the race and you can make a rules out of it.

ps don't think random trades won't get you anywhere in any mkt !

good luck.

[Lutruwita]

I make money in-play in Australia. I've only had a few losing days in 2 years (25,000 races) and they were because I layed winners. I only start the day with a $300 bank to protect myself.

[wearthefoxhat]

fail.png

Often hear this quoted, more relevant to the efforts to be profitable with trading/betting.

Yes, you have to be true to yourself and admit if a strategy is flawed. Sometimes is just needs a tweak, an earlier/later entry point...etc

Coincidentally, I became more consistent/profitable when the 2% comms offer (from 5%) started a while back.

I also find semi-automation works best for me. I usually allow it to create an entry point and manage the exit manually. As most of mine are in-play, (horses/football), I've got the added option of "let it ride." Not used that much, but when you get on the tail of a dragon, don't let go...(too much G.O.T.??)

[eightbo]

There was a horse who ran today named "Commit or Quit", thought it applies to the journey of trading quite well.

If one wants to make it to to the light at the end of the tunnel so to speak then they've got to keep going through the darkness.
The length of that tunnel is different for everyone and with a conscious & logical approach you can change the speed at which you're going but nobody starts on the right end. It's about how much you want it and if that desire isn't enough then you won't make the necessary changes.

I don't mean any offense by this but OP you come across as deluding yourself. You would likely do well to abandon what you think you know and open your mind a bit if you want to make further progress as what you believe to be true may be preventing you from finding what actually works.
  Alternatively; point fingers at those who are on the right side of the tunnel and remain where you are & producing the results you're producing.

Nothing wrong with packing it in and making money elsewhere. No doubt would be easier and may even be most effective to do so.
The time we've used in the past is just that — used.
All any of us can do is be conscious about how we can maximise the ROI of the time we've yet to spend and if that's.

  Or perhaps you'll decide you want it bad enough to continue through further hardship on your way "to the light".
  No right/wrong answer about what to do other than the one made by the individual it concerns...

[cmuddle]

Hi trader 16, definitely you are not the only one, who struggles with racing.

I was trying to trade pre race but was lacking patience and quickly found out that it is not for me.

In-running was successful but I could not keep up emotionally, it was so nerve wrecking I felt sometimes my heart would jump out of my breast . That was manual, trading steaming favourites. Great experience, lot of fun but I had to stop it because I wanted to stay alive for a bit longer. One day of in-play trading was so stressful, I seriously was thinking about my health.
Tried to automate it which was fun but it is not the same, machine is a machine and too many factors get missed and a PC is still slower in analysing curtain situations than a human brain. Had to give it up completely.

Now I am just laying horses with some form study involved and enjoying it. It potentially can become an income source some time in future but I am not relying on it so much as I used to be. It puts a lot of pressure on one.

To have fun is one of the main ingredients here. Don't you have fun studying all those graphs, opening BA, reading these posts?
If not just stop and give yourself a break. I did it this year for 3 months and it was refreshing. Give yourself some time to digest all that you have learned and you will be surprised.

It is also quite addictive we all can say and especially when we loose. And yes very, very difficult. You need to have a talent to master this, plus effort and discipline. I only have the effort and little bit of discipline and is not yet enough to succeed.

Just some of my thoughts, just skip if too boring and too long