Enough is enough - time to admit defeat.

The sport of kings.
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Trader Pat
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

goat68 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:26 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:23 pm
goat68 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:53 pm
This discussion does make me think:
- xtrader16 being at this 5years and still not profitable
- morbius knows tons of theory and still not profitable
- if there was some simple metric(s) that told you which way a market is going to trade everyone would be using it..., Therefore there isn't one!
- everyone says follow a plan, but if you can't define anything tangible that gives you a market indication, then a plan is going to be hard to realize
- so you can't trade using something tangible, therefore you trade on instinct, gut feel, most likely from experience
- if you don't have years of experience to base your instinctive trades on then you're basically guessing...
- Therefore goat is currently guessing :-)

Nobody ever said there was a simple metric for trading, but reading back on this thread and looking at some of the advice offered makes it sound over simplistic from a technical point of view. I've seen a lot of advice along the lines of "If a runners price comes into 'X' then do 'Y'" or "If near a crossover then do X,Y,Z..." I've seen very little advice talking about what other runners in the market are doing. In my experience and I'm sure its the same for most traders, when I talk about patterns repeating in the market in most cases I'm not talking about patterns on individual runners but rather patterns of the market as a whole, how different runners interact with each other is paramount. Opening a market and seeing something drifting and jumping on the back of that isn't trading its gambling and that leads to break even results at best. You have to be asking yourself if the drift is likely to continue before getting on board, how you answer that question is dependent on what other runners in the market are doing. Spend some time trying to take in what the other runners are doing in the market and not just having a tunnel vision approach on the runner you're trading.

For me it's like when you were in school and preparing for a test. Did you do just enough so that you would pass the test or did you make a conscious effort to understand the topic. There's a massive difference between the two.
In school I had a teacher...!

Teachers are there to guide students, not to hold their hand and do the work for them. Some students work harder than others even though they have the same teacher, the ones who don't put the effort in can't then complain that the teacher didn't do their job.

Seems to me goat that you're still looking for a shortcut and you're not willing to leave every stone unturned to crack this. I and others have asked you if you were recording your trades and you just ignore the question so I would take that as a no. If you were to do that then things would start to make more sense as you can review your trades back whitout any emotion attached to what you're seeing.
Last edited by Trader Pat on Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Trader Pat
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

Morbius wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:34 pm
OOPS.....wrong person...too many people on here with "Trader" in their names :lol:
You know I was only yesterday thinking exactly the same thing! :lol:
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Morbius
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:38 pm

Trader Pat wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:40 pm
Morbius wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:34 pm
OOPS.....wrong person...too many people on here with "Trader" in their names :lol:
You know I was only yesterday thinking exactly the same thing! :lol:

sorry mate, that reply was for Trader Fred but sod it....I can't be arsed anymore :D
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Morbius
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:38 pm

The Silk Run wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:36 pm
Morbius wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:10 pm
MODS......why have posts disappeared from this thread??
Possibly for the well being of all the beautiful angels that use this platform ....

Either that or for the benefit of the trolls who think they can attack with impunity and/or the egos of people who have won a few quid :lol:
Bubace
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:50 pm

Trader Pat wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:23 pm
goat68 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:53 pm
This discussion does make me think:
- xtrader16 being at this 5years and still not profitable
- morbius knows tons of theory and still not profitable
- if there was some simple metric(s) that told you which way a market is going to trade everyone would be using it..., Therefore there isn't one!
- everyone says follow a plan, but if you can't define anything tangible that gives you a market indication, then a plan is going to be hard to realize
- so you can't trade using something tangible, therefore you trade on instinct, gut feel, most likely from experience
- if you don't have years of experience to base your instinctive trades on then you're basically guessing...
- Therefore goat is currently guessing :-)

Nobody ever said there was a simple metric for trading, but reading back on this thread and looking at some of the advice offered makes it sound over simplistic from a technical point of view. I've seen a lot of advice along the lines of "If a runners price comes into 'X' then do 'Y'" or "If near a crossover then do X,Y,Z..." I've seen very little advice talking about what other runners in the market are doing. In my experience and I'm sure its the same for most traders, when I talk about patterns repeating in the market in most cases I'm not talking about patterns on individual runners but rather patterns of the market as a whole, how different runners interact with each other is paramount. Opening a market and seeing something drifting and jumping on the back of that isn't trading its gambling and that leads to break even results at best. You have to be asking yourself if the drift is likely to continue before getting on board, how you answer that question is dependent on what other runners in the market are doing. Spend some time trying to take in what the other runners are doing in the market and not just having a tunnel vision approach on the runner you're trading.

For me it's like when you were in school and preparing for a test. Did you do just enough so that you would pass the test or did you make a conscious effort to understand the topic. There's a massive difference between the two.
this is how i try and trade, im always looking at the other runners , or ones i think are going to be relevent to the price movement.

but take a couple of races ago, the favourite priced at 1.86, second 7.6 and ther rest between 18 and 1000, im sitting thinking that if this favourite comes in the second is going to come out, that happens and the favourite ends up coming into 1.62, i lay the second when the move starts, only for the second to start coming in as well and nothing else seems to be moving? :? its still all a mystery to me im afraid
TraderFred
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:55 am

Morbius wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:42 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:40 pm
Morbius wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:34 pm
OOPS.....wrong person...too many people on here with "Trader" in their names :lol:
You know I was only yesterday thinking exactly the same thing! :lol:

sorry mate, that reply was for Trader Fred but sod it....I can't be arsed anymore :D
I was only having a bit of fun, Morbius. It was just a little play on the famous “dogs playing poker” painting. Like you say I don’t understand the game at all, though I’m sure it was very difficult back then, and only the sharpest minds could make a living at it. I’d like to apologise if I have offended you, or any of the poker playing dogs from the painting.

I have to say though, I would have expected a top poker champion like yourself to have kept a much cooler head. I didn’t think you would be so easily riled.
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jimibt
Posts: 2824
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm

TraderFred wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:25 pm
I have to say though, I would have expected a top poker champion like yourself to have kept a much cooler head. I didn’t think you would be so easily riled.
tho, maybe it's a bluff of a bluff of a bluff... onion layers!! :D
goat68
Posts: 707
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:53 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

I'm going to research using timeform in my analysis, maybe that's the secret!
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jimibt
Posts: 2824
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm

goat68 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:31 pm
I'm going to research using timeform in my analysis, maybe that's the secret!
dang, was looking for a *shoo, off you trot twinkle toes* emoji - BA, any chance of adding one?? :D
sniffer66
Posts: 536
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 8:37 am

Trash talking, looking for the tilt ;)
Last edited by sniffer66 on Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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