Horseracing sport where your allowed to be bent.

The sport of kings.
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Redhead
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Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:01 am

This is something I've noticed for a long time, I bring it up here today as I was reading about a tennis player who was banned for 12 months for TALKING to fixers, not actually fixing matches just talking to them and refusing their offers.

Now, why do horse trainers & connections think that its perfectly acceptable to place lay a favourite with thousands just before the off and he's never put in the race, this is match fixing its as clear as day, I remember one year in the French guineas, some O'Brien horse that was called after a flower or something, was being layed with the largest amounts I've ever seen outside of cricket markets, 6 figure lays going in. I've never seen anything like it, the beast was pulled up mid-race as it bled, this is corruption of the highest order but not a word is said.

Imagine if Djokovic was layed with hundreds of thousands pre match then gets beaten 6-2 6-1, people would be baying for his blood.

So, why do horse people think that they can do this all the time but still act all sanctimonious & virtuous when on TV, is it because they think they have a god given right to put people away?

The race where the place lay on the favourite I was talking about was worth around £2.3k, they made 13.5k more than that off the lays.

The BHA are not fit for purpose, the trainers, jockeys & owners have seen prize money fall through the floor, so this will increase the dodgy goings on and Betfair will not stop it or call it out as it affects their business.

Put on top of all of that you have affordability checks, where the exchange wont accept your source of income is the exchange.................why is the sports betting industry self-destructing?
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Dallas
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Redhead wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:10 pm


Now, why do horse trainers & connections think that its perfectly acceptable to place lay a favourite with thousands just before the off and he's never put in the race, this is match fixing its as clear as day,
Unless there's a typo or I've misunderstood the context if it never ran the lay bets would have been voided if it never ran?
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Redhead
Posts: 252
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Dallas wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:41 pm
Redhead wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:10 pm


Now, why do horse trainers & connections think that its perfectly acceptable to place lay a favourite with thousands just before the off and he's never put in the race, this is match fixing its as clear as day,
Unless there's a typo or I've misunderstood the context if it never ran the lay bets would have been voided if it never ran?
It ran in the race Dallas, what I mean by it was never put in the race was it wasn't really given a chance once the race started.
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Derek27
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Redhead wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:10 pm
This is something I've noticed for a long time, I bring it up here today as I was reading about a tennis player who was banned for 12 months for TALKING to fixers, not actually fixing matches just talking to them and refusing their offers.

Now, why do horse trainers & connections think that its perfectly acceptable to place lay a favourite with thousands just before the off and he's never put in the race, this is match fixing its as clear as day, I remember one year in the French guineas, some O'Brien horse that was called after a flower or something, was being layed with the largest amounts I've ever seen outside of cricket markets, 6 figure lays going in. I've never seen anything like it, the beast was pulled up mid-race as it bled, this is corruption of the highest order but not a word is said.

Imagine if Djokovic was layed with hundreds of thousands pre match then gets beaten 6-2 6-1, people would be baying for his blood.

So, why do horse people think that they can do this all the time but still act all sanctimonious & virtuous when on TV, is it because they think they have a god given right to put people away?

The race where the place lay on the favourite I was talking about was worth around £2.3k, they made 13.5k more than that off the lays.

The BHA are not fit for purpose, the trainers, jockeys & owners have seen prize money fall through the floor, so this will increase the dodgy goings on and Betfair will not stop it or call it out as it affects their business.

Put on top of all of that you have affordability checks, where the exchange wont accept your source of income is the exchange.................why is the sports betting industry self-destructing?
Can you give a reference to one of the "trainers & connections" who publically say it's okay to lay their own runners and hold it back? I can assure you if they did that they would be in very hot water.

A horse bleeding is not corruption. You wouldn't like to run a mile with a broken blood vessel! And how do you know it was the connections that were laying it?

Many drifters run badly but quite a few go on to win and prove the lack of confidence unfounded.
kerza
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Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:29 am

Redhead wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:10 pm
Put on top of all of that you have affordability checks, where the exchange wont accept your source of income is the exchange.................why is the sports betting industry self-destructing?
A little off topic but, have many had issues with this? I would have thought Betfair would accept that your income was from their exchange as they can see the history of the account? If not, this is concerning with all the new affordability checks that are coming into place.
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Redhead
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Put on top of all of that you have affordability checks, where the exchange wont accept your source of income is the exchange.................why is the sports betting industry self-destructing?
[/quote]
Can you give a reference to one of the "trainers & connections" who publically say it's okay to lay their own runners and hold it back? I can assure you if they did that they would be in very hot water.

A horse bleeding is not corruption. You wouldn't like to run a mile with a broken blood vessel! And how do you know it was the connections that were laying it?

Many drifters run badly but quite a few go on to win and prove the lack of confidence unfounded.
[/quote]


The size of the lays in the French Classic were the size you dont see in horse markets, they were 6 figures, why would you be laying a horse with 6 figures at around 6.0 unless you knew something? It wasn't just one either...........

The point of my post was regarding the different blinkered views people have of match fixing/insider trading, its not acceptable to talk in one sport but its accepted in another.

That was all
Tetras
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The lack of prize money probably has something to do with why it's treated differently.
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Redhead
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kerza wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:04 pm
Redhead wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:10 pm
Put on top of all of that you have affordability checks, where the exchange wont accept your source of income is the exchange.................why is the sports betting industry self-destructing?
A little off topic but, have many had issues with this? I would have thought Betfair would accept that your income was from their exchange as they can see the history of the account? If not, this is concerning with all the new affordability checks that are coming into place.
In my opinion and this is just my opinion..........................Betfair are changing the model of the exchange so they are squeezing out the pros and sharps, this means to me anyway that they are now providing MOST of the liquidity and this in turn makes them see certain people as a threat to their profit margin, they must avoid savvy punters. The exchange will end up as nothing more than a glorified sportsbook.
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Redhead
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Tetras wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:14 pm
The lack of prize money probably has something to do with why it's treated differently.
Yes, this encourages bad behaviour by ALL involved. Hence why I said the BHA aren't fit for purpose.
Tetras
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Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:23 pm

Redhead wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:15 pm
Tetras wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:14 pm
The lack of prize money probably has something to do with why it's treated differently.
Yes, this encourages bad behaviour by ALL involved. Hence why I said the BHA aren't fit for purpose.
I think this is a situation of "be careful what you wish for", because if prize money is increased, it will come from gambling and the industry has been pushing for a turnover charge, which from what I understand of Aus, it's not great for the exchange, or the bookies, so less opportunity for everyone.
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Redhead
Posts: 252
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:01 am

Tetras wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:26 pm
Redhead wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:15 pm
Tetras wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:14 pm
The lack of prize money probably has something to do with why it's treated differently.
Yes, this encourages bad behaviour by ALL involved. Hence why I said the BHA aren't fit for purpose.
I think this is a situation of "be careful what you wish for", because if prize money is increased, it will come from gambling and the industry has been pushing for a turnover charge, which from what I understand of Aus, it's not great for the exchange, or the bookies, so less opportunity for everyone.

Exhibit A

https://www.racingpost.com/news/entain- ... ing/481826


So, these affordability checks are pushing out pro gamblers as they cannot justify their income as the books wont accept its come from gambling, they ask for other forms of income as evidence, which we cant provide so we get squeezed out. I used to provide liquidity for numerous markets that have been pulled as I was making to big a margin on them. I have had a deposit limit put on my account I found out today as I was topping up for the IPL.

THIS IS TO DRIVE US OUT OF THE GAME

So, how are these checks GOOD for racing?


Because, there are no savvy punters allowed to eat the little fish, the CORPORATIONS & their STAKEHOLDERS will be eating all the little fish instead and then tossing the crumbs to the HRB.


JUST MY OPINION GUYS.
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Derek27
Posts: 23477
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Redhead wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:07 pm
The size of the lays in the French Classic were the size you dont see in horse markets, they were 6 figures, why would you be laying a horse with 6 figures at around 6.0 unless you knew something? It wasn't just one either...........

The point of my post was regarding the different blinkered views people have of match fixing/insider trading, its not acceptable to talk in one sport but its accepted in another.

That was all
I'm not saying there wasn't anything underhand going on, obviously I don't know, but you're purely speculating. How many times has a horse been heavily laid only to win? You probably don't count those. Race fixing generally occurs in the lower grade races. I wouldn't expect much of it in a classic.
Tetras
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:23 pm

Redhead wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:32 pm
Tetras wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:26 pm
Redhead wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:15 pm


Yes, this encourages bad behaviour by ALL involved. Hence why I said the BHA aren't fit for purpose.
I think this is a situation of "be careful what you wish for", because if prize money is increased, it will come from gambling and the industry has been pushing for a turnover charge, which from what I understand of Aus, it's not great for the exchange, or the bookies, so less opportunity for everyone.

Exhibit A

https://www.racingpost.com/news/entain- ... ing/481826


So, these affordability checks are pushing out pro gamblers as they cannot justify their income as the books wont accept its come from gambling, they ask for other forms of income as evidence, which we cant provide so we get squeezed out. I used to provide liquidity for numerous markets that have been pulled as I was making to big a margin on them. I have had a deposit limit put on my account I found out today as I was topping up for the IPL.

THIS IS TO DRIVE US OUT OF THE GAME

So, how are these checks GOOD for racing?


Because, there are no savvy punters allowed to eat the little fish, the CORPORATIONS & their STAKEHOLDERS will be eating all the little fish instead and then tossing the crumbs to the HRB.


JUST MY OPINION GUYS.
If you look at the timing in that article, my opinion is that the bookies are doing it to make it look like they have matters in hand, and even make punters mad on purpose, so that there is a push to reduce the scale of the checks.
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Derek27
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Location: UK

Redhead wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:14 pm
kerza wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:04 pm
Redhead wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:10 pm
Put on top of all of that you have affordability checks, where the exchange wont accept your source of income is the exchange.................why is the sports betting industry self-destructing?
A little off topic but, have many had issues with this? I would have thought Betfair would accept that your income was from their exchange as they can see the history of the account? If not, this is concerning with all the new affordability checks that are coming into place.
In my opinion and this is just my opinion..........................Betfair are changing the model of the exchange so they are squeezing out the pros and sharps, this means to me anyway that they are now providing MOST of the liquidity and this in turn makes them see certain people as a threat to their profit margin, they must avoid savvy punters. The exchange will end up as nothing more than a glorified sportsbook.
It's the pros and the sharps that make Betfair their income in the form of premium charge. Why would they want to get rid of their income generators?
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ShaunWhite
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Redhead wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:07 pm
Put on top of all of that you have affordability checks, where the exchange wont accept your source of income is the exchange.............
Don't affordablily checks only apply when you're depositing? If your source of income is the exchange you only withdraw, I haven't deposited money for years.
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