In play - tracksiders, how do they do it?

[rik]

Well if you have a speed advantage you probably want to move the market by actively placing bets, rather than hoping someone matches yours. Your unlikely to get matched on a back bet if the runner makes progress in a race or on a lay bet if the runner fell at a hurdle etc...
Im sure one way for them to be fast is programming hotkeys so they just have to press the runner number and automatically lay 1000 or a low back bet is placed.
Also on the bigger races there will be many people competing for speed so if one guy is a bit slower or misses a faller another one might react a bit better, so that should be why the delays are fairly consistent.
Compared to live video if there is a faller the price will move to 1000 just slightly ahead of me seeing it on the screen which means live video is just a bit more than a second behind, used to be worse.

[napshnap]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated. I can definitely see how cancelling lay bets would work but I'm still perplexed how the backers are identifying horses so quickly that are often slightly obscured etc. I guess that's why they are making the big bucks and I'm not

Shaun answered your question viewtopic.php?p=269556#p269556. You cant compete with a well written bot that has such advantage.

[Kai]

HFT FTW

You can learn to race read quickly but why not try and learn to read the ladder as well, in my opinion it's a bigger advantage than speed advantage!

[ShaunWhite]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated. I can definitely see how cancelling lay bets would work but I'm still perplexed how the backers are identifying horses so quickly that are often slightly obscured etc. I guess that's why they are making the big bucks and I'm not

Shaun answered your question viewtopic.php?p=269556#p269556. You cant compete with a well written bot that has such advantage.

And it's the case that these people are dedicated professionals at the very top of their game, of course they're going to be good at it.

I seriously think that most people who "discover" Betfair having not been involved in betting before think it's populated by a bunch of amateur mug punters. Gambling is an mature industry, you're up against people who've dedicated their whole careers to it, that's why it's hard for a rank amateur to get a foot in the door.

[Derek27]

HFT FTW

You can learn to race read quickly...

Proper race-reading skills take years to aquire.

[Kai]

HFT FTW

You can learn to race read quickly...

Proper race-reading skills take years to aquire.

Maybe if you're color blind Probably does if you're learning on your own from scratch but you don't need to know that much to get into profit

Regarding learning "how to ladder" here's a wild random idea, close the fast pics and other runners besides the fav and have at it

[Derek27]

HFT FTW

You can learn to race read quickly...

Proper race-reading skills take years to aquire.

Maybe if you're color blind Probably does if you're learning on your own from scratch but you don't need to know that much to get into profit

Regarding learning "how to ladder" here's a wild random idea, close the fast pics and other runners besides the fav and have at it

I suppose race-reading has a different meaning to a punter. It's all about judging how well a horse is going, its action, how comfortable it is on the surface, etc.

[Kai]

Very underrated market overall I feel, wish I wasn't warned off it for years! Race reading on a relatively basic level is enough I think, in conjunction with the ladder side which I prefer more. There are some excellent IP traders lurking on the forum.

But perfect filler market, I'll likely be getting stuck in again after EURO

[iambic_pentameter]

If you have a knowledge of different horses' run styles, quirks, pace etc along with knowledge of the jockeys riding them, you could have a good idea pre race about what might happen.

Once the tape goes up / gates open though, things can change very quickly.

Kai is right about the ladders though - that will tell you more than 'live pictures' - again though, what you are seeing on said ladders could reinforce your pre-race opinion (or not)

Iambic

[Derek27]

When I had a dabble at in-play betting, I found one of the key bullets was knowing which horses find nothing off the bridle and conversely, the ones that are first off the bridle but respond well to pressure. I remember a handicap hurdle at Ascot, the two leaders jumped the last 10 lengths clear of the third hold-up horse and were at each other's throats. A put a few quid on the third at 200s, got something in the 600s - it went painfully close.

I abandoned it because it was just too time-consuming studying in-running traits on top of regular pre-race betting.

[Kai]

I abandoned it because it was just too time-consuming studying in-running traits on top of regular pre-race betting.

Surely it's one of the least time-consuming markets, if it's possible to catch a big swing of price in like 5 seconds, compared to 5 minutes on prerace, compared to 5 days on prematch football

Has to be the most opportunity-compressed market on the exchange, so much so that its too fast for people to frame trades, and for an inplay trader 1 sec delay is a joke honestly Like on footy after halftime when they take ages to switch the delay and its basically trading heaven

No but I'm only semi-taking the piss last few comments, you can just let others do their pre-market research and their DD and it's all mostly already taken into account anyway, cuz you can see everything from the inplay activity which runners people fancy etc, you just need bigass ladders Like Iambic says there is some good insight to be gained to anticipate oppos slightly faster than others but I learned to always keep an open mind no matter the market and try keep the context to a minimum as I don't want to be influenced too much by my own little biases, like if I'm anticipating something that is expected to happen I might miss something better that is unexpected etc, I like a clean slate on all marekts ideally.

But ye very similar to how you can trade footy inplay without live pics and still roughly know what's going on cuz the activity itself paints its own live picture of the match etc, which is something I know you're familiar with already

But unlike tennis where those with fastest feeds know definitively that a point is either won or lost there is too much uncertainty here so there is room for normal traders and not just cheating speed merchants Personally don't care about the sport of horse racing itself so too lazy to look up stats/form etc anyway but as a trader I can appreciate the market structure.

[Derek27]

I abandoned it because it was just too time-consuming studying in-running traits on top of regular pre-race betting.

Surely it's one of the least time-consuming markets, if it's possible to catch a big swing of price in like 5 seconds, compared to 5 minutes on prerace, compared to 5 days on prematch football

Has to be the most opportunity-compressed market on the exchange, so much so that its too fast for people to frame trades, and for an inplay trader 1 sec delay is a joke honestly Like on footy after halftime when they take ages to switch the delay and its basically trading heaven

No but I'm only semi-taking the piss last few comments, you can just let others do their pre-market research and their DD and it's all mostly already taken into account anyway, cuz you can see everything from the inplay activity which runners people fancy etc, you just need bigass ladders Like Iambic says there is some good insight to be gained to anticipate oppos slightly faster than others but I learned to always keep an open mind no matter the market and try keep the context to a minimum as I don't want to be influenced too much by my own little biases, like if I'm anticipating something that is expected to happen I might miss something better that is unexpected etc, I like a clean slate on all marekts ideally.

But ye very similar to how you can trade footy inplay without live pics and still roughly know what's going on cuz the activity itself paints its own live picture of the match etc, which is something I know you're familiar with already

But unlike tennis where those with fastest feeds know definitively that a point is either won or lost there is too much uncertainty here so there is room for normal traders and not just cheating speed merchants Personally don't care about the sport of horse racing itself so too lazy to look up stats/form etc anyway but as a trader I can appreciate the market structure.

I was talking about when I was betting, before I started trading. I'm sure there's a lot more (or extra) money to be made by punters who know the horses well but that would involve a lot of extra time studying traits and individual running styles. The main reason I made the switch to trading is that it takes a lot less time than keeping on top of form.

[Buz]

Thanks all, been very enlightening. The GPS angle is interesting, I've been a TPD subscriber in the past but I found it far too inaccurate for my liking. I've lost count where the GPS numbers say a horse has gone down by 2 or 3 metres only to find out it had won by a head.

[Realrocknrolla]

HFT FTW

You can learn to race read quickly...

Proper race-reading skills take years to aquire.

Totally agree. I consider myself pretty good at it.

All them years in the local betting lounges listening to the old timers was definitely worth it

[paspuggie48]

HFT FTW

You can learn to race read quickly...

Proper race-reading skills take years to aquire.

All them years in the local betting lounges listening to the old timers was definitely worth it

Some would say you are one of them