The Dark Side of Horse Racing

[decomez6]

The jury is still out …this is a point of interest as we speak

https://youtu.be/iBwtC_Fs51U

[Trader Pat]

The jury is still out …this is a point of interest as we speak

https://youtu.be/iBwtC_Fs51U

I'd have the same issue with that as I had with the Panorama programme... why give people who want to abolish horse racing a platform? This part of the industry can be cleaned up without invoking a nuclear option.

Going back to the programme itself I think a lot more could be done to rehome these animals but I don't have a problem with them being sent to an abattoir as a last resort, its how these particular horses were disposed of that I have the problem with. It wasn't humane or professional.

[firlandsfarm]

I've not watched the prog. but from most of your comments it appears to follow the usual trail of sensationalist journalism ... find a bad apple and present it as if all the apples from that farmer are bad. It's not just the BBC, it's the whole media. I'm a landlord and I get very pissed off every time I hear of a 'dodgy landlord' story or article but never stories or articles of dodgy tenants! But what do you expect from the LL driven BBC? Horse owners are rich and therefore must be bad people, just like landlords!

Its a shame so many people posting to the thread start off by saying "I didn't watch the programme but....." and then proceed to grind whatever axe is nearest to hand.

Maybe watch the programme then give an opinion on it rather than dismissing the message because of the messenger. Not everything needs to be a political conservation.

Pat, I wasn't meaning to comment on the content of the programme more the style of presentation. Such programmes do not interest me because they do as I said, they find a small number of instances and then try to tar the whole industry with the same brush.

[firlandsfarm]

all true but a story about a decent trainer/owner or indeed landlord will not attract many viewers. people seem to like the dark, dirty, dishonest side of life.

In a way it's a form of gossip on speed!

[Trader Pat]

I've not watched the prog. but from most of your comments it appears to follow the usual trail of sensationalist journalism ... find a bad apple and present it as if all the apples from that farmer are bad. It's not just the BBC, it's the whole media. I'm a landlord and I get very pissed off every time I hear of a 'dodgy landlord' story or article but never stories or articles of dodgy tenants! But what do you expect from the LL driven BBC? Horse owners are rich and therefore must be bad people, just like landlords!

Its a shame so many people posting to the thread start off by saying "I didn't watch the programme but....." and then proceed to grind whatever axe is nearest to hand.

Maybe watch the programme then give an opinion on it rather than dismissing the message because of the messenger. Not everything needs to be a political conservation.

Pat, I wasn't meaning to comment on the content of the programme more the style of presentation. Such programmes do not interest me because they do as I said, they find a small number of instances and then try to tar the whole industry with the same brush.

I don't think the programme was insinuating that this was an industry wide problem though. They shone a light on a particular abattoir because they had footage of what was going on there and they asked a few wider questions of the industry as a whole but it wasn't a hatchet job.

[firlandsfarm]

I don't think the programme was insinuating that this was an industry wide problem though. They shone a light on a particular abattoir because they had footage of what was going on there and they asked a few wider questions of the industry as a whole but it wasn't a hatchet job.

OK, good to hear. Maybe I got the wrong impression from the other comments.

[greenmark]

This may be biased but it disturbed me.
And I'm not posting it to antagonise, merely to add to the debate.
Make of it what you will.
https://www.animalaid.org.uk/the-issues ... -industry/

[Trader Pat]

This may be biased but it disturbed me.
And I'm not posting it to antagonise, merely to add to the debate.
Make of it what you will.
https://www.animalaid.org.uk/the-issues ... -industry/

Disturbing read.

I would probably be for all the action points at the end of the article IF if I had nothing to do with horse racing and didn't make money from trading it. I suppose that's the dilemma though, speaking for myself sometimes its hard not to be a hypocrite in life.

[greenmark]

This may be biased but it disturbed me.
And I'm not posting it to antagonise, merely to add to the debate.
Make of it what you will.
https://www.animalaid.org.uk/the-issues ... -industry/

Disturbing read.

I would probably be for all the action points at the end of the article IF if I had nothing to do with horse racing and didn't make money from trading it. I suppose that's the dilemma though, speaking for myself sometimes its hard not to be a hypocrite in life.

No hypocrisy at all. This is a mature industry. All the participants know the score. The issue for me is the presentation of the industry to the public, but also the lack of oversight to protect both horses and jockeys. It looks a bit archane and in the case of the National simply barbaric,
A friend of mine in the bookie industry told me the Grand National was a loss leader. The bookies make zip from it. Why invoke that carnage merely to suck in punters over the next year?
Oops, gin talking. Oh well, I've reviewed the post and I'm pressing submit because I believe everything I've said.

[Derek27]

This may be biased but it disturbed me.
And I'm not posting it to antagonise, merely to add to the debate.
Make of it what you will.
https://www.animalaid.org.uk/the-issues ... -industry/

Disturbing read.

I would probably be for all the action points at the end of the article IF if I had nothing to do with horse racing and didn't make money from trading it. I suppose that's the dilemma though, speaking for myself sometimes its hard not to be a hypocrite in life.

Nothing disturbing at all about that. It's a lot of claims but zero evidence or reasoning to support it.

Concerning the whip, whenever somebody says it's cruel and should be banned without acknowledging that it's also an essential safety device, they are demonstrating their ignorance. 'Hands & Heels' races are races for apprentice jockeys where they're not allowed to use the whip for encouragement purposes but still carry it for emergencies like when a horse veers sharply.

[greenmark]

This may be biased but it disturbed me.
And I'm not posting it to antagonise, merely to add to the debate.
Make of it what you will.
https://www.animalaid.org.uk/the-issues ... -industry/

Disturbing read.

I would probably be for all the action points at the end of the article IF if I had nothing to do with horse racing and didn't make money from trading it. I suppose that's the dilemma though, speaking for myself sometimes its hard not to be a hypocrite in life.

Nothing disturbing at all about that. It's a lot of claims but zero evidence or reasoning to support it.

Concerning the whip, whenever somebody says it's cruel and should be banned without acknowledging that it's also an essential safety device, they are demonstrating their ignorance. 'Hands & Heels' races are races for apprentice jockeys where they're not allowed to use the whip for encouragement purposes but still carry it for emergencies like when a horse veers sharply.

I don't know. I don't know any jockeys or racing people.
And I didn't post the link as a grenade to upset racing fans.
I jsut came across the information and thought it was a pretty coherent summary of why there are anti-racing people.
On whipping, the article did state both points of view. Which you believe is your judgement.
"Advocates of the whip argue that it assists horses to perform better and run more safely and that it provides helpful chastisement for when they behave ‘badly’. Our report, A Hiding to Nothing (a meticulous investigation of 161 races that were run during October and November 2003, involving 285 jockeys and 1500 horses), shows that whipping horses is more likely to drive them off a true line and place them and other horses in danger. Forty of the 161 races (around 25 per cent) were won by horses who were not subjected to any whipping at all. The report also shows that horses in a state of total exhaustion and out of contention were beaten. The whip was used on the neck and shoulders, as well as on the hindquarters. Horses being whipped 20, or even 30 or more times, during a race was observed.
Our findings have been supported by a 2011 University of Sydney report, An Investigation of Racing Performance and Whip Use by Jockeys in Thoroughbred Races. It also concluded that whipping race horses does not improve performance. ‘On average, they achieved highest speeds when there was no whip use, and the increased whip use was most frequent in fatigued horses. That increased whip use was not associated with significant maintenance of velocity as a predictor of superior race placing at the finish of the race.’
"
I'm inclined to think a jockey wouldn't whack a horse for no good reason. Its a strenuous activity anyway without wasting energy for no gain.
Anyway. I'll read more about and shut up for the moment.

[ANGELS15]

I have seen videos and articles (within last 10 years) that indicate/demonstrate that the modern whip doesn't really hurt horses at all, or hardly. Modern whips are cushioned more.

In the past that wasn't the case.

In the videos people have been invited to hold their hands out palm up and then been struck on the hand with the modern jockey's whip and not felt any pain.

In fact I believe some of what I saw may have been on tv racing coverage but sadly can't remember the dates etc.

If anything the whip also makes a 'cracking' noise which can stimulate horses to run faster.

No one wants to see animals abused but there is like a slowly growing movement that believes we shouldn't eat meat because animals have to be slaughtered. Also because there are animal abuses in certain countries we shouldn't have animals in circuses or used as pack animals etc. Also a belief that dog and horse racing is cruel and should be banned altogether.

[Trader Pat]

I think we'll have to find an expert regarding if the whip hurts or not

Maybe someone into S&M can shed some light on it

[Derek27]

Our report, A Hiding to Nothing (a meticulous investigation of 161 races that were run during October and November 2003, involving 285 jockeys and 1500 horses), shows that whipping horses is more likely to drive them off a true line and place them and other horses in danger. Forty of the 161 races (around 25 per cent) were won by horses who were not subjected to any whipping at all.

That seems to support the advocates of whips. 75% of races are won with the assistance of wipes and the remaining 25% were won comfortably by horses that didn't need it.

Let's face it, if a fancied horse is beated in a close finish and the jockey didn't use the whip, whilst he's not breaking any rules if he's riding the horse out with hands and heels, he's going to get lynched in the parade ring.

[greenmark]

Our report, A Hiding to Nothing (a meticulous investigation of 161 races that were run during October and November 2003, involving 285 jockeys and 1500 horses), shows that whipping horses is more likely to drive them off a true line and place them and other horses in danger. Forty of the 161 races (around 25 per cent) were won by horses who were not subjected to any whipping at all.

That seems to support the advocates of whips. 75% of races are won with the assistance of wipes and the remaining 25% were won comfortably by horses that didn't need it.

Let's face it, if a fancied horse is beated in a close finish and the jockey didn't use the whip, whilst he's not breaking any rules if he's riding the horse out with hands and heels, he's going to get lynched in the parade ring.

That 75/25 stat did occur to me. And just to reiterate I'm not anti-racing. But there's stuff out there that concerns me. Selective breeding that produces fragile animals. Gastric ulcers which are prevalent and maybe a sign of stress. Bleeding in the respiratory tract. For me its not about banning racing, its about raising animal welfare to the highest standards in the industry, across the board. £3.5 billion should be able to provide that.