Leapfrogging bots

[stueytrader]

See this at times, any bet I'm placing on a specific market immediately gets a bet (same sized) placed just in front of my order.

With a conspiracy view of it, this is a 'stalker' bot, as it only seems to be doing it when I place an order...(?)

Do any others see this type of behaviour appearing in their markets?

[stueytrader]

Just to clarify, I don't really think this is a personal stalker bot (just appears that way).

[Euler]

Early illiquid markets often exhibit these characteristics for some reason.

[stueytrader]

Early illiquid markets often exhibit these characteristics for some reason.

Yes, was in a fairly weak market, so I suppose it's just more visible/likely.

[Dallas]

Plenty do use 'leap frog' bots/servants
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23094

[stueytrader]

Plenty do use 'leap frog' bots/servants
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23094

Yes, I did know the general principle was fairly common - it was just the seemingly rather attached nature (to my own specific moves) that I noticed.

It still did it just then I noticed, even though others are in the market, when I moved a price lower in a back (but not as low as some other requests) the bot tracked me and moved just in front of me.

That is more odd.

[stueytrader]

Realise this sounds a bit 'tin foil hat' - so was rather wondering instead what is the algo that finds my bets attractive to follow...

[Dallas]

It could be something about the amounts you are using and/or the ones its not following are its own.
Or when you see a bet appear that could be it leaping another bet which is sub £2 so not showing on the ladder

[decomez6]

I think it also depends on whether you are asking or offering prices to the market .if the latter is the case your order might be acting as catalyst hence ‘flashing ‘other bots that depend on the weight of money to be matched to activate.

[xtrader16]

You could enter your money, notice the increase, then remove your money (one second later)and see if the BOTS funds hold in position. If there is an advantage to you then take it off them.

Not really related to the conversation but I'd like to see a ladder column that recored every £ that was ever entered at a price and what % of that amount gets matched. Just to see if there was fake money in the ladder and where it was going.

Example
Price /Total £ Entered /Total % Matched

2.06 £25,000 37%
2.08 £14,000 40%
2.10 £40,000 20%
2.12 £50,000 25%

Not even sure how relevant it would be but Id like to know what % of money placed in the market actually gets matched and what gets withdraw and how that effects the direction of the ladder. Guess we will never know.

[stueytrader]

You could enter your money, notice the increase, then remove your money (one second later)and see if the BOTS funds hold in position. If there is an advantage to you then take it off them.

I was trying exactly that at times in fact - and like you suggest, as soon as I cancelled my own order the 'leapfrogger' money suddenly disappeared each time.

End of the day, not a massive concern, as it was small amounts in a weak market, but just of interest to me that something was responding to my bets so directly.

[sniffer66]

This actually sounds like very similar behaviour to a bot Archery was running/discussing in the Greyhound Mystique thread a while ago. Was the first thing that sprang to mind.

[jamesedwards]

You could enter your money, notice the increase, then remove your money (one second later)and see if the BOTS funds hold in position. If there is an advantage to you then take it off them.

I was trying exactly that at times in fact - and like you suggest, as soon as I cancelled my own order the 'leapfrogger' money suddenly disappeared each time.

End of the day, not a massive concern, as it was small amounts in a weak market, but just of interest to me that something was responding to my bets so directly.

This happens a lot. I assume it is bots that work by always offering the best possible reverse market price up to a set limit of value. They will continue to jump ahead of you until they reach a set price, and will retreat again if you cancel always sitting 1 tick better than the next best price.