Last Ever Post....Its been Hell... I have to admit it. Goodbye.

The sport of kings.
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Realrocknrolla
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Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:15 pm

No such thing as losing.

Only learning.
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Tuco
Posts: 727
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:43 pm

...a few thoughts for you X - good luck in your next venture:

“Success is the ability to go from one failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm”

“Wherever you go, no matter what the weather, always take your own sunshine”

“You always pass failure on the way to success”

“The rings of Saturn are composed entirely of lost airline luggage”

“Good judgment comes from experience ~ Experience comes from poor judgment”

“When life's path is steep, remember to keep your mind even”

“You have succeeded in life when all you really want is only what you really need”
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xtrader16
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Here is my P&L sheet since posting my resignation letter @ 15:20 - I sat there and read through it and realised what has been missing. I traded a few more a races with lower stakes and here are the results. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.
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ShaunWhite
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xtrader16 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:21 pm
I've hidden my losses from my wife, if she knew how much I’ve lost she would divorce me. LOL but enough is enough.
I wish you health wealth and happiness xtrader.

I've highlighted that sentence for others. I see that as a MASSIVE mistake, especially if you can't trust yourself you must be accountable to someone. I might be odd but I used to go through my account line by line with my Mrs every Friday....it keeps you honest with yourself and you certainly think twice about going IP when you know you'll have to explain it. That's what mentoring is imo, having someone you have to justify your actions too.

Live long and prosper xtrader....there's more to life that sitting looking at a screen anyway so enjoy it.
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xtrader16
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Yer.....thanks Shaun. I think if I asked my wife to go through my Betfair account she'd divorce me anyway. I only ever use exposable income and nothing ever goes unpaid, its better than drinking or having a drug habit. I dont have any kids or a mortgage.

On another topic, speaking to a lot of traders on the forum I am starting to wonder how many people are making a profit on their 30 day P&L. We never really see peoples P&L and im starting to believe that 80%+ are not in profit over the last 30 days.

I am £2100 down over the past 3 months. It represents about 25% of my total exposable funds after all my bills are paid. This is down to me making a profit on 5 out of 7 days and then smashing the account up on one race, several times over 3 months. Going IR is a real issue for me I need to nail it down.

There you go. I've got nothing to hide from anybody - except the missus. :)
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zippus
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Shaun - that's an inspired idea. Sharing the P&L with the missus. Just thinking about it scares the hell out of me. That will definitely keep me on the straight and narrow! Can't believe I didn't think of that.
zippus
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xtrader16 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:28 pm
Here is my P&L sheet since posting my resignation letter @ 15:20 - I sat there and read through it and realised what has been missing. I traded a few more a races with lower stakes and here are the results. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.
That's a tidy P&L mate - decent stuff.

Just a thought re going in play. Maybe you could have an automation / servant running in the background that will 'Take SP on all Unmatched Bets' armed to trigger after your bets have been placed and just before the event goes in play...?
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xtrader16
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zippus wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:44 pm
xtrader16 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:28 pm
Here is my P&L sheet since posting my resignation letter @ 15:20 - I sat there and read through it and realised what has been missing. I traded a few more a races with lower stakes and here are the results. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.
That's a tidy P&L mate - decent stuff.

Just a thought re going in play. Maybe you could have an automation / servant running in the background that will 'Take SP on all Unmatched Bets' armed to trigger after your bets have been placed and just before the event goes in play...?
Ive tried everything mate its an internal issue. I even cut the plug off my TV and threw the HDMI out of the window. Two days later i was logging onto Betfair video and watching the race on a tiny screen whist I have a 27" 4kTv and a Racing Uk account in front of me.

I asked BA to switch off all access to the ladders at 00:00:00 but it isn't feasible. Its not really their problem but that is the only solution I can think of apart from maintaining my own discipline. It is only one in 6 races I'd say but losing £300 laying a 4/1 shot isn't unusual for me. Doesnt matter how many of those lay bets win when that one hits you you feel it.
Tetras
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xtrader16 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:33 pm
Yer.....thanks Shaun. I think if I asked my wife to go through my Betfair account she'd divorce me anyway. I only ever use exposable income and nothing ever goes unpaid, its better than drinking or having a drug habit. I dont have any kids or a mortgage.

On another topic, speaking to a lot of traders on the forum I am starting to wonder how many people are making a profit on their 30 day P&L. We never really see peoples P&L and im starting to believe that 80%+ are not in profit over the last 30 days.

I am £2100 down over the past 3 months. It represents about 25% of my total exposable funds after all my bills are paid. This is down to me making a profit on 5 out of 7 days and then smashing the account up on one race, several times over 3 months. Going IR is a real issue for me I need to nail it down.

There you go. I've got nothing to hide from anybody - except the missus. :)
Not sure if you're wanting contrary posts, but my opinion is that P&Ls with big losses aren't particularly meaningful, no more than most of the profitable ones. You're probably not lazy like you described, if you don't learn it's more likely because of what's being activated in your noggin' that is causing you to repeat the behaviour and the only way to address that is to minimise exposure by changing your approach and I don't mean the 'trading' part either. Mentors are great and all, but they can't change your psychology.

Following on from that, the mental/emotional triggers or however want to phrase it, of big stakes are completely different to small stakes and depending on your trading style, it can be brutal. If you're being guided by someone else, then the decisions aren't resting on you, so it won't push your buttons in the same way.
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xtrader16
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I am openminded to be honest. More than most people. I have no issue with contrary opinions. I think seeing somebodies P&L sheet over 30 days or 3 months gives that person credibility. If you look at my 3 month losses you might not give my opinion much credit but if it was £2k in profit im sure you would give me more time when discussing an issue.

My point was I am now starting to believe that 80% of people trading Betfair Markets are losing money. Whilst 10-20% left are cleaning up the profits. The P&L sheets separate the wheat from the chaff.
zippus
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:19 pm

Tetras makes some great points. Peter has put out some excellent content on trading psychology and openly admits he needed to learn how to take risks / accept losses as opposed to being loss avoidant. Don't know if you've seen them but this one is a decent watch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3t3uytTBCk

Hope it helps.
Tetras
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xtrader16 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:26 pm
I am openminded to be honest. More than most people. I have no issue with contrary opinions. I think seeing somebodies P&L sheet over 30 days or 3 months gives that person credibility. If you look at my 3 month losses you might not give my opinion much credit but if it was £2k in profit im sure you would give me more time when discussing an issue.

My point was I am now starting to believe that 80% of people trading Betfair Markets are losing money. Whilst 10-20% left are cleaning up the profits. The P&L sheets separate the wheat from the chaff.
What gives someone credibility, to me, is if what they say makes sense and most traders go through the same difficulties (or the same type of thing, but in a different guise). My 30 day P&L, at different times, has looked very different and I often made more money when I was a bad trader and consistently losing in the long-term.

I had to figure out what my version of a bad trader looked like and that's what I can share with you. My feeling (and it's just an impression) is that your triggers are similar to what mine were, often nothing to do with your trading at all, like boredom, over-stimulation, putting too much into it, general emotional regulation type stuff. Trading has helped me be a lot more intentional about what energy I bring to trading (and most else). It's like a relationship of sorts.
stueytrader
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Interesting thread and posts.

Pretty sure the points would resonate with any trader, for at least some period of their 'career' in trading.

For me, a turning point was realising I didn't have to follow what everyone else did - follow the same rules, markets, exit approaches and risk strategies - basically to invent all of that for myself.

I tried to copy others for a long time, it never worked. Doing my own thing has helped me a lot instead.
stueytrader
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Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

Should add, I did have some fairly dark times along my journey, before getting to more solid ground.

I could have ruined myself a couple of times, in doing my 'own thing' - so had to eliminate some areas of course along the way.

But I find trying to be a template model of a good trader is often not a good model, as everyone else is trying that and the market already knows so much.
stueytrader
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Tetras wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:43 pm

I had to figure out what my version of a bad trader looked like and that's what I can share with you. My feeling (and it's just an impression) is that your triggers are similar to what mine were, often nothing to do with your trading at all, like boredom, over-stimulation, putting too much into it, general emotional regulation type stuff. Trading has helped me be a lot more intentional about what energy I bring to trading (and most else). It's like a relationship of sorts.
I very much like your point there. It is very true that energy fluctuates during trading, but more importantly that will knock directly onto how you process and perform.
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