Last Ever Post....Its been Hell... I have to admit it. Goodbye.

[zippus]

Tetras makes some great points. Peter has put out some excellent content on trading psychology and openly admits he needed to learn how to take risks / accept losses as opposed to being loss avoidant. Don't know if you've seen them but this one is a decent watch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3t3uytTBCk

Hope it helps.

[Tetras]

I am openminded to be honest. More than most people. I have no issue with contrary opinions. I think seeing somebodies P&L sheet over 30 days or 3 months gives that person credibility. If you look at my 3 month losses you might not give my opinion much credit but if it was £2k in profit im sure you would give me more time when discussing an issue.

My point was I am now starting to believe that 80% of people trading Betfair Markets are losing money. Whilst 10-20% left are cleaning up the profits. The P&L sheets separate the wheat from the chaff.

What gives someone credibility, to me, is if what they say makes sense and most traders go through the same difficulties (or the same type of thing, but in a different guise). My 30 day P&L, at different times, has looked very different and I often made more money when I was a bad trader and consistently losing in the long-term.

I had to figure out what my version of a bad trader looked like and that's what I can share with you. My feeling (and it's just an impression) is that your triggers are similar to what mine were, often nothing to do with your trading at all, like boredom, over-stimulation, putting too much into it, general emotional regulation type stuff. Trading has helped me be a lot more intentional about what energy I bring to trading (and most else). It's like a relationship of sorts.

[stueytrader]

Interesting thread and posts.

Pretty sure the points would resonate with any trader, for at least some period of their 'career' in trading.

For me, a turning point was realising I didn't have to follow what everyone else did - follow the same rules, markets, exit approaches and risk strategies - basically to invent all of that for myself.

I tried to copy others for a long time, it never worked. Doing my own thing has helped me a lot instead.

[stueytrader]

Should add, I did have some fairly dark times along my journey, before getting to more solid ground.

I could have ruined myself a couple of times, in doing my 'own thing' - so had to eliminate some areas of course along the way.

But I find trying to be a template model of a good trader is often not a good model, as everyone else is trying that and the market already knows so much.

[stueytrader]

I had to figure out what my version of a bad trader looked like and that's what I can share with you. My feeling (and it's just an impression) is that your triggers are similar to what mine were, often nothing to do with your trading at all, like boredom, over-stimulation, putting too much into it, general emotional regulation type stuff. Trading has helped me be a lot more intentional about what energy I bring to trading (and most else). It's like a relationship of sorts.

I very much like your point there. It is very true that energy fluctuates during trading, but more importantly that will knock directly onto how you process and perform.

[Euler]

Interesting thread and posts.

Pretty sure the points would resonate with any trader, for at least some period of their 'career' in trading.

For me, a turning point was realising I didn't have to follow what everyone else did - follow the same rules, markets, exit approaches and risk strategies - basically to invent all of that for myself.

I tried to copy others for a long time, it never worked. Doing my own thing has helped me a lot instead.

Everybody has differing tolerances to risk based on their background and life experiences. So I would always recommend people play with strategies but find their own angle on it.

[Kai]

Trading is a bit like smoking, it's harder to quit than people think From what I've seen at least, it goes beyond sunk cost fallacy and ego etc.

I tried to copy others for a long time, it never worked. Doing my own thing has helped me a lot instead.

Good for you Stuey, spot on for me!

Get stuck in, build your own market experience, form your own opinions, make most of the mistakes yourself, learn from mistakes ffs, pick up what you can from other traders, find trading concepts that work and build a trading style that suits you around markets you actually like.

Or, if that sounds like too much effort.... you can just watch a few random Youtube videos and try to copy paste everything you see. And by "everything" I only mean the measly 10% that you can actually see at that point.

[LeTiss]

I've said this many times before.....people who gravitate to trading from punting, have the greatest problems with closing out markets pre-event for a loss

I know this from personal experience and speaking to many traders over the years

As a punter, you get a run for your money....it doesn't matter if your horse falls at the first, or gets beaten at the post. It doesn't matter if you back over 2.5 goals, and at 60mins it's 1-1 or 0-0.....you've always had a run for your money. But, closing out for a guaranteed loss before an event has even started, is an incredibly difficult mental hurdle for punters to navigate.

Everyone can get a green screen, even if its for pennies, but it's the red screens that separates the men from the boys in trading
I believe discipline and psychology are far more important qualities in trading than being a number cruncher, or a sports anorak

I had to retrain my brain to become a full-time trader....if you cannot control what you think, you'll never control what you do

[Realrocknrolla]

I had to retrain my brain to become a full-time trader....if you cannot control what you think, you'll never control what you do

Pretty much the same as myself Tiss!

But I have to admit, I still enjoy a punt!

[stueytrader]

Interesting thread and posts.

Pretty sure the points would resonate with any trader, for at least some period of their 'career' in trading.

For me, a turning point was realising I didn't have to follow what everyone else did - follow the same rules, markets, exit approaches and risk strategies - basically to invent all of that for myself.

I tried to copy others for a long time, it never worked. Doing my own thing has helped me a lot instead.

Everybody has differing tolerances to risk based on their background and life experiences. So I would always recommend people play with strategies but find their own angle on it.

Yes, totally agree, and that a key area you have to decide on yourself is the element of risk.

[Derek27]

My point was I am now starting to believe that 80% of people trading Betfair Markets are losing money. Whilst 10-20% left are cleaning up the profits. The P&L sheets separate the wheat from the chaff.

You'll be surprised how many traders are breaking even, or making profits or losses so small they are in effect breaking even.

[stueytrader]

Trading is a bit like smoking, it's harder to quit than people think From what I've seen at least, it goes beyond sunk cost fallacy and ego etc.

I tried to copy others for a long time, it never worked. Doing my own thing has helped me a lot instead.

Good for you Stuey, spot on for me!

Get stuck in, build your own market experience, form your own opinions, make most of the mistakes yourself, learn from mistakes ffs, pick up what you can from other traders, find trading concepts that work and build a trading style that suits you around markets you actually like.

Yep, been there and done that on repeat - sometimes great, sometimes terrible, but always a good lesson to keep building upon. It doesn't end either - I don't think it ever will (for me at least).

[LeTiss]

Pretty much the same as myself Tiss!

But I have to admit, I still enjoy a punt!

Yes me too, but I've been able to separate in my mind the difference between a trade and a punt.

It's a bit like seeing an attractive girl and playing Shag, Marry, Avoid
You need to know what you're doing when you enter the market

[to75ne]

It's a bit like seeing an attractive girl and playing Shag, Marry, Avoid
You need to know what you're doing when you enter the market

you really do have a marvellous way of illustrating your thought processes - its a god given gift

[stueytrader]

It's a bit like seeing an attractive girl and playing Shag, Marry, Avoid
You need to know what you're doing when you enter the market

you really do have a marvellous way of illustrating your thought processes - its a god given gift

Yes, great analogy there Le Tiss!

I would add for myself sometimes (in this arena) that means deciding I am simply not trading at all, but that decision to leave a position has to be pre-planned and never ad-hoc.