Good afternoon,
Having setup my one click screen and customised things to my liking I would really like to move on to the next stage which would be coming out of practice mode and begin my trading journey. I'm wondering if you guy's could advise and guide me on the best route to go.? I've noticed a few guys online offer courses via video and zoom I've also been reading everything I can find. So based on the above what is everyone's thoughts please.? I'd also be interested in hearing how you all progressed from practice to live inplay and any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated.
BB
Would really like to learn how to trade inplay??
Practice mode is purely for testing software and functions to make sure you know how to use it. It's not for practising trading and doesn't accurately simulate trading so nobody progresses from practice mode to live mode. You start in live mode. Now that Betfair has reduced the minimum stake to £1 you can practice with £1 stakes will very little risk.Betr_bet wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:22 pmGood afternoon,
Having setup my one click screen and customised things to my liking I would really like to move on to the next stage which would be coming out of practice mode and begin my trading journey. I'm wondering if you guy's could advise and guide me on the best route to go.? I've noticed a few guys online offer courses via video and zoom I've also been reading everything I can find. So based on the above what is everyone's thoughts please.? I'd also be interested in hearing how you all progressed from practice to live inplay and any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated.
BB
I've never been into trading courses. You'd be amazed how much you can learn on your own just by having a play around. If you're trading horse racing in-play it helps to have knowledge of racing and horses but realistically it takes years to learn the sport, about horses, running styles and race reading. An alternative would be looking at stats and seeing which horses tend to trade low/high in running.
you can watch races and look for the signals (what most courses teach) however, what you think will happen wont happen every time
eg: jockey is animated a little too far from home = lay signal
the above may work however, it depends on the horse, ground & course. In heavy ground is not unusual to see a struggler plugging on & the horses in front finding nothing. Then there's the course. Does the home straight run downhill? this may also see strugglers plug on & win
the jumps season is coming to an end. Laying jumping errors can give you a decent strike rate in-play but you don't have this edge during the flat season as much.
It also takes a lot of discipline to get out of a position and not to sit there & hope. Horse & course knowledge really is key if you want to do something like laying inplay.
A flat course I feel comfortable trading is Hamilton but that's because ive walked it. I know that horses pushed on the downhill section instead of saving energy for the uphill finish may struggle to be placed.
happy to chat more
eg: jockey is animated a little too far from home = lay signal
the above may work however, it depends on the horse, ground & course. In heavy ground is not unusual to see a struggler plugging on & the horses in front finding nothing. Then there's the course. Does the home straight run downhill? this may also see strugglers plug on & win
the jumps season is coming to an end. Laying jumping errors can give you a decent strike rate in-play but you don't have this edge during the flat season as much.
It also takes a lot of discipline to get out of a position and not to sit there & hope. Horse & course knowledge really is key if you want to do something like laying inplay.
A flat course I feel comfortable trading is Hamilton but that's because ive walked it. I know that horses pushed on the downhill section instead of saving energy for the uphill finish may struggle to be placed.
happy to chat more
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 9731
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
They say you can't teach common sense but plenty of people seem to make a living trying to do just that. Before you sign up for a course ask yourself if you really need to be told how to spot the difference between a horse that's travelling well and one that's knackered. If you don't need to be told then don't sign up, and if you do then maybe this isn't your game
Probably easier to approach this market from the value betting angle to start with, trading it can be extremely punishing compared to preoff.
IMHO trading courses overall are probably good value for absolute beginners, to bring them up to speed somewhat, just don't expect to be profitable overnight.
IMHO trading courses overall are probably good value for absolute beginners, to bring them up to speed somewhat, just don't expect to be profitable overnight.
Not sure if there any good courses out there, you are probably better looking for free material (there is some on here) and trying to figure it out yourself.
I only really trade pre-off but have definitely saw opportunities of value inplay. As an example people were backing a horse at 1.01 before the last fence at Cheltenham and it fell.
You need to be fast AND able to deal with high variance though, the variance for some strategies will make it difficult to measure if you actually have an edge which is psychologically tough. Most strategies can be automated with Betangel though.
Also remember you are up against people with faster pictures/on course.
My main tip would be to find a staking method which caps your total worst case liability to a sensible amount per trade as you don't want to be risking anywhere near 100% of your bank at any time
I only really trade pre-off but have definitely saw opportunities of value inplay. As an example people were backing a horse at 1.01 before the last fence at Cheltenham and it fell.
You need to be fast AND able to deal with high variance though, the variance for some strategies will make it difficult to measure if you actually have an edge which is psychologically tough. Most strategies can be automated with Betangel though.
Also remember you are up against people with faster pictures/on course.
My main tip would be to find a staking method which caps your total worst case liability to a sensible amount per trade as you don't want to be risking anywhere near 100% of your bank at any time
Betr_bet wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:22 pmGood afternoon,
Having setup my one click screen and customised things to my liking I would really like to move on to the next stage which would be coming out of practice mode and begin my trading journey. I'm wondering if you guy's could advise and guide me on the best route to go.? I've noticed a few guys online offer courses via video and zoom I've also been reading everything I can find. So based on the above what is everyone's thoughts please.? I'd also be interested in hearing how you all progressed from practice to live inplay and any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated.
BB
I am no expert and like in play as well (I bet on Aussie racing) but if you are going to go in play in the UK I think you need to watch Peter's video on TPD, you can see that this data is even faster than the quickest pictures, in fact if you watch the video the runners are off even before the market goes in play, so unless you use it you are behind from the off. If you are going off TV pictures then you are most likely quite a few seconds behind those using TPD
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SteadySlobbin
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:17 am
This is the key quote.
If you don’t know what you are doing, and it sounds like you don’t, then you are just going to be cannon fodder for the people with the faster pictures that do.
No online course is going to teach you otherwise. It will just be teaching you obvious stuff, like mentioned above, that people with faster pictures will see and react to before you.
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wearthefoxhat
- Posts: 3221
- Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am
As already mentioned, it's worth looking for horses that have been overbet and are judged to have a poor chance of winning. (L2B) Alternatively, horses that are under-estimated that drift, and may are likely to run a big race. (B2L) I tend to rate selections and highlight the ones to focus on, not everyones cup of tea, but I enjoy the process. There is sometimes a cross over from Pre-race to In-play which is not recommended for some, but there is the built in "Let it Ride" aspect that gives a brucey bonus from time to time.
On the bet angel shared automation page, there are some really good in-play bots that give a starting point that can be be built or stripped down. The selections identified, can then be plugged into guardian, bot selected, and off you go.
Also, certain trainers tend to repeat patterns. Back in the day (before Betfair), Martin Pipe would want to front run his horses. He would get them fit and run the opposition into the ground. If he trained today. that would be useful information to trade with. There are trainers that try to do similar things today.
On the bet angel shared automation page, there are some really good in-play bots that give a starting point that can be be built or stripped down. The selections identified, can then be plugged into guardian, bot selected, and off you go.
Also, certain trainers tend to repeat patterns. Back in the day (before Betfair), Martin Pipe would want to front run his horses. He would get them fit and run the opposition into the ground. If he trained today. that would be useful information to trade with. There are trainers that try to do similar things today.
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 9731
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
New people first need to understand how profits are actually accumulated long-term because too many get swept along with the idea that you can do it without considering value. Even all the L2B and B2L players are actually identifying opening prices they see as being wrong wrt their likely IR performance, ie obtaining a value position, and then looking for value exits (eg if you've backed and it's leading then you certainly aren't going to just close for the heck of it, it would be closed only when it was deemed to be a 2nd value bet).
I get bored with saying it and I'm sure everyone else does too but "trading" is just betting more than once on the same market, and everyone who understands betting knows there's only one way to make betting pay long-term. The fact there's several bets per market rather than one doesn't alter the fundamental maths. So if you're looking for a price to shorten you're obtaining value vs a price in the future, but having correctly predicted that move it doesn't inherently mean that that price in the future will itself be a value price and worth betting on again.
That requires people to understand that a value price can be different at different times (whereas punters usually see a price in relation to the final pruce/aka the result)... A hyperthetical example would be say Man City are 5.0 vs Palace.....huge value in anyone's eyes not just as a final result (punter view) but in relation to what the price might be in 30mins(trader view).City score and the price only drops to 4.0......that's a "trading" profit but most would agree it would be insanity to lay them at 4. All successful traders are considering the value of their next bet rather than thinking too hard about a bet they had sometime in the past even if it was on the same market.
I think you're mostly right, in theory, about this. But I've never seen Peter not green up, so not "all'.'ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:42 pmAll successful traders are considering the value of their next bet rather than thinking too hard about a bet they had sometime in the past even if it was on the same market.
Is there a reason you want to do in-play? E.g. do you have good race reading skills?Betr_bet wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:22 pmGood afternoon,
Having setup my one click screen and customised things to my liking I would really like to move on to the next stage which would be coming out of practice mode and begin my trading journey. I'm wondering if you guy's could advise and guide me on the best route to go.? I've noticed a few guys online offer courses via video and zoom I've also been reading everything I can find. So based on the above what is everyone's thoughts please.? I'd also be interested in hearing how you all progressed from practice to live inplay and any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated.
BB
There are lots of different ways to approach it, so I'd suggest you tailor how you learn and what courses you choose, based on what you prefer.
I'm no expert in-play, but I started by following the advice on here and over time I learned more by myself, just by watching the markets and experimenting.
Like said above though, if you don't have fast pictures then don't try beating the people that do. Not everything in-play is so time-sensitive, but trading via ITV would be very unwise, for example (the race can be over before it has even started on the TV!).
It's all about the (value) entries for me, I think exits are a very tricky and endless subject. In short, I think this is generally where traders give up some value, with their exits, you see it all the time, basically allowing others an opportunity to get in etc which I like tbh. It is difficult enough getting your entries matched at good value prices, that worrying about perfect exits seems a bit unrealistic and frankly a bit greedy too.ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:42 pm...obtaining a value position, and then looking for value exits (eg if you've backed and it's leading then you certainly aren't going to just close for the heck of it, it would be closed only when it was deemed to be a 2nd value bet).
Plainly put, I give up some value because it's easier to work a market like that psychologically, hence the averaging philosophies etc, it is in equal part position management and mindset management, you wan't to both protect your open positions from all outcomes (if possible) and protect your trading confidence at the same time. Whether it can be labeled as a luxury or laziness or common sense I think traders do it because they can and because clearly your exits don't need to be valuable for you to be profitable.
Sometimes you just want to put as many bets as possible through a market if the fillrates allow for it without really worrying about value, but if I analyze markets where I had large turnovers even then it still comes down to taking at least a tick's worth of value.
I've never used practice mode.Betr_bet wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:22 pmGood afternoon,
Having setup my one click screen and customised things to my liking I would really like to move on to the next stage which would be coming out of practice mode and begin my trading journey. I'm wondering if you guy's could advise and guide me on the best route to go.? I've noticed a few guys online offer courses via video and zoom I've also been reading everything I can find. So based on the above what is everyone's thoughts please.? I'd also be interested in hearing how you all progressed from practice to live inplay and any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated.
BB
If you want to learn to ride a bike, get on and start peddling - the more times you fall off, get up and get back on, the more you have learnt - that is my advice to you.
To make your living from trading, whether horses, dogs or other stuff pre-off, in-play or both, you will need to spend your time learning and lots of it. Don't mess about, get involved BB!
"nothing is a waste of time if you use the experience wisely"