Form Duo to trade in play trackside in Victoria

[cjw]

Requesting someone who wants to form duo and bet trackside in Victoria :

1. one person would use binoculars to spot tiring lay bets and breakaway winners
2 other person makes the bets after info is relayed via phone call and ear buds
3 all profits split 50/50
4. I will bankroll the beginning between 500-$1000
5 You must have a car and be prepared to travel to races 3 times a week
6 Fuel will be paid for from bankroll each day
7 Beginner ore experience is welcome
8. wants to begin next week and wants to

If interested DM me with contact details and lets do this

[The Silk Run]

We needed someone like you to break the ice after a rather tense period.
Thank you

[Dallas]

Think you might be about 10 years to late to do this

[Trader Pat]

We needed someone like you to break the ice after a rather tense period.
Thank you

[The Silk Run]

We needed someone like you to break the ice after a rather tense period.
Thank you

[The Silk Run]

Aside. Theirs a forum member on here under the profile name k_iller who is a professional race caller in the Kingdom. Maybe reach out to him for some ideas and see if he is willing to help.
I, as part of a horse racing gambling syndicate have used his services previously and he is very, very GOOD.

[The Silk Run]

We can always rely on the lovely people of Ireland to break the ice.
Thank you Pat

[JCB]

Just a warning, there is very, very little money in tracksiding AU races.

I used to bet IP (and pre-off) trackside at numerous QLD and NSW tracks in 2012-2016. Often I was the only one there, don't think I saw more than 2 or 3 others at any one meeting I attended during that time. Last time I was on course there were probably 15 people there with laptops and tablets, and this was a Mickey Mouse meeting.

I used to come home with 4 figures most meetings. As a frame of reference, I used to fly from Brisbane to Rockhampton for their meetings as the pickings were that good (the long straight and weird camera angle made it near impossible for at home players to compete with me). Regional flights cost a buttload but it was still worth it.

Then around 2017 everything changed. There were tracksiders at every meeting and liquidity bombed. $500 became a good day, a really good day. Then things changed again a couple of years ago and making a couple hundred bucks became hard work. Honestly, not even worth the effort.

I don't mean to pour cold water on your idea but your 'spotter' idea simply isn't going to work. By the time your spotter relays the info to you (assuming they are decent race readers in the first place) you will have been well and truly beaten by the streamlined solo operators. So you'll either end up going unmatched or getting matched at poor value by the other tracksiders and those with a fast feed. That communication delay, even if only a second or two, is going to absolutely destroy you.

A $500-$1000 bank is also wildly insufficient for IP trading.

Basically all of the mug money is gone from IP trading in Australia, it's just smart money against smart money. That short communication delay, even if you are the best race reader of all time, will render you the mug and you'll get absolutely smashed. Even if you do decide to go solo to negate that delay you will be operating against people who have been doing this for years and have absolutely everything optimised. There are nuances that you'll have no idea even exist until you have burnt through your bankroll several times over, and then by the time you have it dialed in, there's so little liquidity that you won't get a chance to even claw your initial outlay back, nevermind turn a profit.

I don't mean to be so negative and if you are anything like me, you'll give it a go anyway despite any advice to the contrary, but just wanted to give you some insight as to how things will end up going if you head down this road.

My advice for what it's worth is to go solo and attend a few meetings while trading $10 and see how you go. But don't make the mistake of thinking it's scalable, often there's only a few bucks available at the best price which will skew your results. $10 might get matched at $1.50 but $500 might go at an average of $1.05 if you a 1.01 player.

Good luck either way

[ShaunWhite]

50% for the one doing all the work and 50% for the one (aka you) who's surplus to requirements?

[Dingbat44]

Interesting read JCB, how do you think the fast feed guys are getting the vision?

Imo opinion it's a group of them either connected to Tabcorp/Sky or betfair, most likely paying top dollar to access the feed.

Their most likely in an office close to Tabcorp as they would need to be getting the fibre off them it would be way too expensive to run that to homes. It's very frustrating and unfair and betfair deny there's any chance someone has access to a fast/live feed which we all know is bullshit, when their playing it's basically every track and when they have a day off betfair has a compleltly different feel.

What can be done about this i don't know but they have decimated the markets and liquidity has declined ridiculously, as you said there's hardly any mug money around apart from Sat's but that's gen eaten up by the FF boys.

If this continues for a few more years i'd say the markets will close as it won't be viable anymore, how dumb

[gstar1975]

Requesting someone who wants to form duo and bet trackside in Victoria :

1. one person would use binoculars to spot tiring lay bets and breakaway winners
2 other person makes the bets after info is relayed via phone call and ear buds
3 all profits split 50/50
4. I will bankroll the beginning between 500-$1000
5 You must have a car and be prepared to travel to races 3 times a week
6 Fuel will be paid for from bankroll each day
7 Beginner ore experience is welcome
8. wants to begin next week and wants to

If interested DM me with contact details and lets do this

Also Commission rates in Victoria are relatively high at 6%

Australian Commission Base Rates.jpg

[Wildly]

Screenshot 2022-09-12.png

7% is Vic base rate since March 2022.

[Charliechee]

Just a warning, there is very, very little money in tracksiding AU races.

I used to bet IP (and pre-off) trackside at numerous QLD and NSW tracks in 2012-2016. Often I was the only one there, don't think I saw more than 2 or 3 others at any one meeting I attended during that time. Last time I was on course there were probably 15 people there with laptops and tablets, and this was a Mickey Mouse meeting.

I used to come home with 4 figures most meetings. As a frame of reference, I used to fly from Brisbane to Rockhampton for their meetings as the pickings were that good (the long straight and weird camera angle made it near impossible for at home players to compete with me). Regional flights cost a buttload but it was still worth it.

Then around 2017 everything changed. There were tracksiders at every meeting and liquidity bombed. $500 became a good day, a really good day. Then things changed again a couple of years ago and making a couple hundred bucks became hard work. Honestly, not even worth the effort.

I don't mean to pour cold water on your idea but your 'spotter' idea simply isn't going to work. By the time your spotter relays the info to you (assuming they are decent race readers in the first place) you will have been well and truly beaten by the streamlined solo operators. So you'll either end up going unmatched or getting matched at poor value by the other tracksiders and those with a fast feed. That communication delay, even if only a second or two, is going to absolutely destroy you.

A $500-$1000 bank is also wildly insufficient for IP trading.

Basically all of the mug money is gone from IP trading in Australia, it's just smart money against smart money. That short communication delay, even if you are the best race reader of all time, will render you the mug and you'll get absolutely smashed. Even if you do decide to go solo to negate that delay you will be operating against people who have been doing this for years and have absolutely everything optimised. There are nuances that you'll have no idea even exist until you have burnt through your bankroll several times over, and then by the time you have it dialed in, there's so little liquidity that you won't get a chance to even claw your initial outlay back, nevermind turn a profit.

I don't mean to be so negative and if you are anything like me, you'll give it a go anyway despite any advice to the contrary, but just wanted to give you some insight as to how things will end up going if you head down this road.

My advice for what it's worth is to go solo and attend a few meetings while trading $10 and see how you go. But don't make the mistake of thinking it's scalable, often there's only a few bucks available at the best price which will skew your results. $10 might get matched at $1.50 but $500 might go at an average of $1.05 if you a 1.01 player.

Good luck either way

JCB i read in the Aus racing thread you said a group of players are accessing a feed over in the USA, is that correct.

[JCB]

Interesting read JCB, how do you think the fast feed guys are getting the vision?

Imo opinion it's a group of them either connected to Tabcorp/Sky or betfair, most likely paying top dollar to access the feed.

Their most likely in an office close to Tabcorp as they would need to be getting the fibre off them it would be way too expensive to run that to homes. It's very frustrating and unfair and betfair deny there's any chance someone has access to a fast/live feed which we all know is bullshit, when their playing it's basically every track and when they have a day off betfair has a compleltly different feel.

What can be done about this i don't know but they have decimated the markets and liquidity has declined ridiculously, as you said there's hardly any mug money around apart from Sat's but that's gen eaten up by the FF boys.

If this continues for a few more years i'd say the markets will close as it won't be viable anymore, how dumb

Honestly I'd only be guessing. I'd like to think rightly or wrongly lol) that I'm reasonably well connected in the AU scene and I don't know of anyone who has access to a fast feed, outside of the random meetings that pop up on various satellites from time to time. It's always possible that someone does have access and doesn't want to share that info but I simply don't know.

There would be all sorts of licensing issues involved in distributing the vision to a third party. Not to say that it's impossible, but it would have to be a super high value client for Sky to go through all that trouble while knowing that a competitor will be the beneficiary of their turnover. I can only think of one crew who may still have that sort of pull and I don't believe it's them simply because whoever does (or did) have access to vision is quite frankly really shit at race reading and I don't think that particular group would tolerate any form of mediocrity. Plus as you mention, they do take days off. That wouldn't happen with who I'm thinking of.

On that basis, Occam's Razor would suggest it's the TAB themselves. No need to mess around with licensing agreements or distribution channels, no risk of enriching a competitor (who they absolutely hate, and without obtaining a greater benefit for themselves) and they've probably trained some 19 year old to the lowest level of competency required to still make a profit and pay them 50k a year, as opposed to the mid 6 figures you'd have to pay to get someone 'good' in the private market.

Total speculation of course, I have no evidence to back any of this up.

[JCB]

JCB i read in the Aus racing thread you said a group of players are accessing a feed over in the USA, is that correct.

Sky distribute raw vision (with very little delay) by cable to 2 countries, NZ (to be distributed by NZ TAB/Trackside) and the USA (distributed by Sky Racing World).

The North American ADW's have quite a bit of influence over the various stakeholders involved in the industry (not the right word I'm looking for but hopefully you get the picture). There is no centralised pari-mutuel body like there is in AU and NZ so the licensing agreements aren't as strict as they are over here (where you have major players like Foxtel involved).

If you turnover large amounts through a particular ADW, they will do everything they can to help and in the past that has included fast vision direct from the broadcaster. There are 2 issues that come along with that, first you need to have a resident of the US open and operate the account for you and secondly, you have to turnover large amounts before you'll be extended special privileges. In the past there were very attractive rebates available where it was simple to break even or even eke out a small percentage on turnover, but those larger rebates are history now so you'd likely have to operate at a significant loss in order to have your ADW pull any strings on your behalf and it's unlikely it would be a viable strategy these days unless you had some sort of grandfathered agreement.

So yes it's possible that there are legacy players out there, but if you were starting off today I couldn't imagine it would be worth it.