*HELP* possible bug at betfair cost me 300 quid

[worldplaywithangel]

Race: Kempton 9th Nov : 1m Nov Stks

Yesterday i traded a race. I closed my position after 5-10 sec the race went inplay and I am VERY sure that I cloesd at around the odds it was right before the inplay. I clearly saw green profit of around 10 DKK. then I closed the market.

After I noticed my balance was in minus! Apparently it was layed at odds 25 which I find strange. When I look at the profit/loss (see the video) it looks weird as the numbers change. When I click on the lay bet it shows -5 DKK?

There must be a bug with betfair as my account went into minus? I have never been able to place lay bets that could result in minus balance, so how did that happen?

I contacted betfair and they are working on an answer but so far they say they cannot see any bug happen but they agree its weird I went into minus. They gave me 1000 DKK back so my account is 0 but they didn't compensate me 100% for the loss as they can't see any error on their side, but also agree that they cant explain why it shows up weird in the profit/loss section..

Have you tried this before, did you encounter bugs yesterday and is there a place where I can see the markets odds with timestamps as I simply dont think the horse never went into those odds at that time

[Derek27]

Race: Kempton 9th Nov : 1m Nov Stks

Yesterday i traded a race. I closed my position after 5-10 sec the race went inplay and I am VERY sure that I cloesd at around the odds it was right before the inplay. I clearly saw green profit of around 10 DKK. then I closed the market.

After I noticed my balance was in minus! Apparently it was layed at odds 25 which I find strange. When I look at the profit/loss (see the video) it looks weird as the numbers change. When I click on the lay bet it shows -5 DKK?

There must be a bug with betfair as my account went into minus? I have never been able to place lay bets that could result in minus balance, so how did that happen?

I contacted betfair and they are working on an answer but so far they say they cannot see any bug happen but they agree its weird I went into minus. They gave me 1000 DKK back so my account is 0 but they didn't compensate me 100% for the loss as they can't see any error on their side, but also agree that they cant explain why it shows up weird in the profit/loss section..

Have you tried this before, did you encounter bugs yesterday and is there a place where I can see the markets odds with timestamps as I simply dont think the horse never went into those odds at that time

You don't need to record a video of your screen, you can use the snipping tool if you're using Windows.

It's really something only Betfair can deal with but obviously there must be something wrong at their end to allow your balance to go into the negative. I'd suggest you go through your transaction list for that race to see if you can identify the bet that should never have been placed or wasn't placed.

[jamesedwards]

Off time 17:35 (your time) and a huge 45p rule 4 applied to this race when the favourite Oh So Charming was a late withdrawal. I'm betting it will be something to do with your back bets being pre-off and your lay bets in-play as the Betfair reduction will apply to pre-off bets only and not in-play bets.

This happened to me the other day:
I backed a horse for £100 at 5.0 and then put in a £100 lay position right on the off which was immediately matched at 4.8. It went on to win the race, but then it turned out that there was a very late scratch of another horse (20% reduction factor in this case) which was only applied by Betfair after the race had been run. Because my lay bet was matched in the first second of in-play the 20% reduction was only applied to my back bet and not my lay bet. So my expected profit of £20 turned into a loss of £60 once the late withdrawal and relevant reductions were applied to the market after the race was complete.

If you check your bets in the 'settled' section of the 'exchange betting history' tab you will probably find a huge reduction applied to your back bets matched between 17:28 to 17:34, but not your lay bet which was matched at 17:35.

[Anbell]

Off time 17:35 (your time) and a huge 45p rule 4 applied to this race when the favourite Oh So Charming was a late withdrawal. I'm betting it will be something to do with your back bets being pre-off and your lay bets in-play as the Betfair reduction will apply to pre-off bets only and not in-play bets.

This happened to me the other day:
I backed a horse for £100 at 5.0 and then put in a £100 lay position right on the off which was immediately matched at 4.8. It went on to win the race, but then it turned out that there was a very late scratch of another horse (20% reduction factor in this case) which was only applied by Betfair after the race had been run. Because my lay bet was matched in the first second of in-play the 20% reduction was only applied to my back bet and not my lay bet. So my expected profit of £20 turned into a loss of £60 once the late withdrawal and relevant reductions were applied to the market after the race was complete.

If you check your bets in the 'settled' section of the 'exchange betting history' tab you will probably find a huge reduction applied to your back bets matched between 17:28 to 17:34, but not your lay bet which was matched at 17:35.

+1

[worldplaywithangel]

Off time 17:35 (your time) and a huge 45p rule 4 applied to this race when the favourite Oh So Charming was a late withdrawal. I'm betting it will be something to do with your back bets being pre-off and your lay bets in-play as the Betfair reduction will apply to pre-off bets only and not in-play bets.

This happened to me the other day:
I backed a horse for £100 at 5.0 and then put in a £100 lay position right on the off which was immediately matched at 4.8. It went on to win the race, but then it turned out that there was a very late scratch of another horse (20% reduction factor in this case) which was only applied by Betfair after the race had been run. Because my lay bet was matched in the first second of in-play the 20% reduction was only applied to my back bet and not my lay bet. So my expected profit of £20 turned into a loss of £60 once the late withdrawal and relevant reductions were applied to the market after the race was complete.

If you check your bets in the 'settled' section of the 'exchange betting history' tab you will probably find a huge reduction applied to your back bets matched between 17:28 to 17:34, but not your lay bet which was matched at 17:35.

You are spot on.. in exchange betting history it says "GB / Kempton 9th Nov / 17:30 1m Nov Stks (RF Oh So Charming 48.08%)"

So actually it's nice of betfair to credit my account back to 0 as it went into minus even though there isnt anything wrong on their part?

Is there anything I can do - it still looks weird as my last lay bet was at odds 25, certainly i think it was very close to the odds just before inplay, so it should be around 13. I still dont get that part. And also as I show in the video, it shows up weirdly, the lay bet changes to -5 lol. So maybe there was a glitch on top of this?

[Derek27]

Reduction factors only apply pre-race. There will always be people betting in running that are unaware of the withdrawal so may have laid it at 25 instead of 13.

[jamesedwards]

Off time 17:35 (your time) and a huge 45p rule 4 applied to this race when the favourite Oh So Charming was a late withdrawal. I'm betting it will be something to do with your back bets being pre-off and your lay bets in-play as the Betfair reduction will apply to pre-off bets only and not in-play bets.

This happened to me the other day:
I backed a horse for £100 at 5.0 and then put in a £100 lay position right on the off which was immediately matched at 4.8. It went on to win the race, but then it turned out that there was a very late scratch of another horse (20% reduction factor in this case) which was only applied by Betfair after the race had been run. Because my lay bet was matched in the first second of in-play the 20% reduction was only applied to my back bet and not my lay bet. So my expected profit of £20 turned into a loss of £60 once the late withdrawal and relevant reductions were applied to the market after the race was complete.

If you check your bets in the 'settled' section of the 'exchange betting history' tab you will probably find a huge reduction applied to your back bets matched between 17:28 to 17:34, but not your lay bet which was matched at 17:35.

You are spot on.. in exchange betting history it says "GB / Kempton 9th Nov / 17:30 1m Nov Stks (RF Oh So Charming 48.08%)"

So actually it's nice of betfair to credit my account back to 0 as it went into minus even though there isnt anything wrong on their part?

Is there anything I can do - it still looks weird as my last lay bet was at odds 25, certainly i think it was very close to the odds just before inplay, so it should be around 13. I still dont get that part. And also as I show in the video, it shows up weirdly, the lay bet changes to -5 lol. So maybe there was a glitch on top of this?

If your lay bet at 25 has no deduction marked against it on the 'exchange betting history' tab then it was matched in-play so no deduction is applicable. You effectively backed at around 26 but with a reduction factor of 48.08%, and laid at 25 in-play so with no reduction factor. As it was a late withdrawal Betfair didn't remove Oh So Charming until after the race so it looked like you were heading for a green when in fact you were heading for a red especially in the unfortunate event of Icy Dip winning, which it did.

In the back of my mind I think it's not legal for Betfair to allow an account to go into negative (something to do with betting on credit?) so they will usually correct a negative account back to zero as long as it wasn't due to deliberate fraud.

[worldplaywithangel]

Off time 17:35 (your time) and a huge 45p rule 4 applied to this race when the favourite Oh So Charming was a late withdrawal. I'm betting it will be something to do with your back bets being pre-off and your lay bets in-play as the Betfair reduction will apply to pre-off bets only and not in-play bets.

This happened to me the other day:
I backed a horse for £100 at 5.0 and then put in a £100 lay position right on the off which was immediately matched at 4.8. It went on to win the race, but then it turned out that there was a very late scratch of another horse (20% reduction factor in this case) which was only applied by Betfair after the race had been run. Because my lay bet was matched in the first second of in-play the 20% reduction was only applied to my back bet and not my lay bet. So my expected profit of £20 turned into a loss of £60 once the late withdrawal and relevant reductions were applied to the market after the race was complete.

If you check your bets in the 'settled' section of the 'exchange betting history' tab you will probably find a huge reduction applied to your back bets matched between 17:28 to 17:34, but not your lay bet which was matched at 17:35.

You are spot on.. in exchange betting history it says "GB / Kempton 9th Nov / 17:30 1m Nov Stks (RF Oh So Charming 48.08%)"

So actually it's nice of betfair to credit my account back to 0 as it went into minus even though there isnt anything wrong on their part?

Is there anything I can do - it still looks weird as my last lay bet was at odds 25, certainly i think it was very close to the odds just before inplay, so it should be around 13. I still dont get that part. And also as I show in the video, it shows up weirdly, the lay bet changes to -5 lol. So maybe there was a glitch on top of this?

If your lay bet at 25 has no deduction marked against it on the 'exchange betting history' tab then it was matched in-play so no deduction is applicable. You effectively backed at around 26 but with a reduction factor of 48.08%, and laid at 25 in-play so with no reduction factor. As it was a late withdrawal Betfair didn't remove Oh So Charming until after the race so it looked like you were heading for a green when in fact you were heading for a red especially in the unfortunate event of Icy Dip winning, which it did.

In the back of my mind I think it's not legal for Betfair to allow an account to go into negative (something to do with betting on credit?) so they will usually correct a negative account back to zero as long as it wasn't due to deliberate fraud.

So the deduction rate will show as a reduced odds even though it was actually traded at a higher odds at the time? That could explain that I lay at 25 and back at around 13

[jamesedwards]

So the deduction rate will show as a reduced odds even though it was actually traded at a higher odds at the time? That could explain that I lay at 25 and back at around 13

Yes, in the event of a late withdrawal the selection sometimes is not removed from the market until after the race. When this happens the reduction is applied retrospectively.

All bets placed before the off will have had a deduction rate of 48.08% applied after the race. All bets placed in-play will have no deduction rate applied as there are never any reductions applied to in-play bets. It's just unfortunate for you that all the winning back bets were pre-off and have the deduction applied, but your losing lay bet doesn't because it was matched in-play. It's as if you backed at around 13 and laid at 25.

[worldplaywithangel]

So the deduction rate will show as a reduced odds even though it was actually traded at a higher odds at the time? That could explain that I lay at 25 and back at around 13

Yes, in the event of a late withdrawal the selection sometimes is not removed from the market until after the race. When this happens the reduction is applied retrospectively.

All bets placed before the off will have had a deduction rate of 48.08% applied after the race. All bets placed in-play will have no deduction rate applied as there are never any reductions applied to in-play bets. It's just unfortunate for you that all the winning back bets were pre-off and have the deduction applied, but your losing lay bet doesn't because it was matched in-play. It's as if you backed at around 13 and laid at 25.

Thanks for clarification! Can you see in the video, the last bet which is the lay bet in play, how it changes when i switch average odds on/off and when I click on it to see details? It changes to -5

Is that just a display bug or could that indicate something went wrong on their side? I have contacted them 2 times and they are working on an answer. As it takes long it might be more complicated than just 4 - there might still be hope :I