Hunting for Profit - Other in-play courses

The sport of kings.
JuiceyJones
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:00 pm

I've taken both Carl's and am currently a member of Back for Profit having taken that course too. I personally prefer to trade the BFP way as it suits my trading style. Be prepared to sit on your hands a lot with BFP. At most you'll only be making 2-3 trades a day. Which suits me fine.

Carl teaches multiple ways to trade in play and you will need a minimum of 3 monitors (2 vertical) to trade this way. At least that was my experience. You have to have quick eyes to trade this way. I personally found watching 2-3 runners in a race plus 4 different ladders was a lot for me.

Carl seems like a good guy. Andrew is very good at following up, answering questions and providing examples (which are usually the most helpful). Both also trade for a living which I think is always a positive.

Just my 2cents.
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Kai
Posts: 6092
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm

JuiceyJones wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:33 pm
Both also trade for a living which I think is always a positive.
Well it certainly helps when the course seller knows what he's talking about :lol:

Still not a mandatory requirement I suppose!
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Archangel
Posts: 1987
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:03 pm
Location: Polo Lounge, Beverly Hills Hotel

JuiceyJones wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:33 pm
. Both also trade for a living which I think is always a positive.
Always a plus :lol:
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Kai wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:26 am
JuiceyJones wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:33 pm
Both also trade for a living which I think is always a positive.
Well it certainly helps when the course seller knows what he's talking about :lol:
Sitting there all afternoon for a couple of bets in low volume situations doesn't seem like the best use your effort and it's not scalable either. It exemplifies what I think about all this ex-jockey/I'm a trader stuff. They often have a punters mentality rather than a full time trader's mentality which should be about operational efficiently and scalability aka £/hr. They might know what they're taking about when it comes to horses but clearly not when it comes to trading in 2023, its probably why they put so much energy into selling courses? You might make a pound or two but there's bigger fish to fry.
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wearthefoxhat
Posts: 3205
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 5:23 pm
Rea_ctor wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 3:28 pm
It seems I have a lot to learn haha. I'm just finding my feet here though :)
You find that everyone develops their own style and techniques and there's a lot of different ways to do this. Just remain open minded, learn from everyone and find your niche rather than trying to emulate someone that's spent years working on theirs because you probably won't.

.
+1

For the OP, the Bet Angel IP Trader is a good starting point, combined with interpretation of a good pace map and a value entry point. I reckon Lay2Back trading set ups are easier to deal with than Back2Lay ones, everyone to their own.
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decomez6
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:26 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:09 pm
It exemplifies what I think about all this ex-jockey/I'm a trader stuff. They often have a punters mentality rather than a full time trader's mentality They might know what they're taking about when it comes to horses but clearly not when it comes to trading in 2023.
boils down to the same old Cold War .
-Fundamentals v/s Technical Analysis.

A good jockey knows a good jockey when he sees one . And what a better way to send a ‘thief ‘to catch a real thief. There is a possibility of a jockey giving up on a horse but the market still believes in the horse, the jockey ‘trader’ can help to identify such cases and depending on the level of confidence , he would advice to stake accordingly .so may be you might not need a lot of chances to make a decent return.

Technical analysis also have its own downfalls,
- how do you determine the ‘Real world odds’ when you have Xmatching messing up the organic structure of the market .
Matched volumes should dictate the price movements. This should then make it easy to trace smart money and probably help identify spoofers etc. .. but BF wants to be the only one keeping that information.
How else can one explain having discrepancies , between ranked prices and ranked volumes .
The two data points should be identical but they sometimes are the polar opposites of each other .

— you will observe alot of volume matched at a price and high fill rate at one particular point in the market and yet ‘zero ‘ price movement with disproportionate volume distribution…. like a low price having less volume than the high price.

You know I read all your posts with my learning glasses on 🧐 .. so do forgive me 😃
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Black Ice
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:35 pm
Location: Newmarket Suffolk

Juicy Jones wrote: I've taken both Carl's and am currently a member of Back for Profit having taken that course too. I personally prefer to trade the BFP way as it suits my trading style. Be prepared to sit on your hands a lot with BFP. At most you'll only be making 2-3 trades a day. Which suits me fine.

Carl teaches multiple ways to trade in play and you will need a minimum of 3 monitors (2 vertical) to trade this way. At least that was my experience. You have to have quick eyes to trade this way. I personally found watching 2-3 runners in a race plus 4 different ladders was a lot for me.

Carl seems like a good guy. Andrew is very good at following up, answering questions and providing examples (which are usually the most helpful). Both also trade for a living which I think is always a positive.

I have taken Carl's course purely because I found it & didn't know there were any others. I am though very interested in hearing about B4P, After too many years of utterly failing with pre-race..I am finding IPT considrably easier...this is largely due to fact that i can race-read....my brain can't crack any sort of data analysis...as folks say...each to his own. CARL's course: he is a genuine guy & his content is all very good...I would say though it's not a course for the data analysis guys as it depends very largely on race-reading & seeing things before other traders do. I trade with one laptop & one monitor & don't find watching 3/4 horses in Jump races much of a problem. Shorter flat races are..& often just concentrate on one/most 2 horses.....though I use a 2nd LpTp for the Racing Post races. Carl's disadvantage is that he is trading with Geeks Toy & not BA....so it took me quite some time to understand his vids/trades looking at ladder screens I'm not used to. Hope this helps...in the eternal Trading battle!! Any other comments on B4P would be most helpful.
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

decomez6 wrote:
Thu Dec 29, 2022 8:53 am
boils down to the same old Cold War .
-Fundamentals v/s Technical Analysis.
[/quote]
I don't see a "vs", both are valid but a combination of both is probably best. Eg TPD or an algo with eyes-on too. (I think James might operate that way)... It's just that TA alone gives you large scale small margin and watching the race alone gives you low scale with hopefully a higher margin.

But neither done badly will work, I probably wouldn't be any good at race reading and a great race reader might not have the analytical skills. As usual we just have to play to our strengths and lifestyle goals.
Rea_ctor
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:12 pm

JuiceyJones wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:33 pm
I've taken both Carl's and am currently a member of Back for Profit having taken that course too. I personally prefer to trade the BFP way as it suits my trading style. Be prepared to sit on your hands a lot with BFP. At most you'll only be making 2-3 trades a day. Which suits me fine.

Carl teaches multiple ways to trade in play and you will need a minimum of 3 monitors (2 vertical) to trade this way. At least that was my experience. You have to have quick eyes to trade this way. I personally found watching 2-3 runners in a race plus 4 different ladders was a lot for me.

Carl seems like a good guy. Andrew is very good at following up, answering questions and providing examples (which are usually the most helpful). Both also trade for a living which I think is always a positive.

Just my 2cents.
You're the second person I've seen say that about B4P. I take it you get maybe 1/2 strategies and these have strict criteria that need meeting? Not sure I could sit all day watching horse racing to maybe not make a single trade haha
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Because the markets are efficient it's unlikely you will have an opportunity on every race, so waiting for one to occur is usually the best way.

Have a read of David's blog to get a feel for going from nothing to something more substantial: -

https://runlikeadrain.com/two-years-wit ... or-profit/
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Personally speaking, the way I figured out how to trade in-play was learning to race read initially.

I found myself in between races being able to tell who the winner was a few furlongs out, so I started trying to understand why. I listened to commentators, jockeys and trainers and slowly learnt how a race is run and when a horse is in trouble or presented for the win.

From there I just tried to quantify it somewhat so I could tell what was and wasn't value and where opportunities were likely to be.

TPD has allowed me to put a number on those and be slightly ahead of the curve.
Rea_ctor
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:12 pm

Thanks again for the advice it's given me a lot to think about. I definitely want to implement TPD once I get to grips with things, it seems like common sense when trading in-play markets.
nucky06
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:24 pm

Hi, sorry for the late reply but I'm not an active forum member here but someone in our group saw your post.

I've been a member of Hunting For Profit since more or less its inception back in 2017.

There's several private Skype rooms eg one for during the racing cards, one for chit chat, one where Matt posts regular videos and several others that he'll be only too happy to talk to you about and anything else if you decide to contact him.

Matt is a very genuine, honest and a lovely guy, yes, we are friends but only since having become a member.
He helped me on my own journey through the in play markets and subsequently learning how to master his systems.
He taught me how to read the ladders and bring what's occurring on those ladders, the video and the notes all into one set of indicators to determine entries and exits into said markets.
He's always happy to answer any questions you have, critique your trades, if you've recorded them and generally give you as much 1-2-1 support, should you need it.

We have a good seasoned group of traders in the group always ready to give advice and help out.

Some members prefer to receive Matt's daily detailed watch list and just get their heads down and get on with their trading, others prefer to discuss things happening throughout the course of the card with Matt and other members, it's entirely up to each member to decide what he or she wants from the service.

As a group, we do meet up once or twice a year too, the last meet up was at Epsom and it was nice to see some familiar and new faces.

He has a massive library of training videos, around 500 now I think! These videos will help to teach you to understand how to trade the in play markets.

I can't really tell you much more other than HFP is run by a real first class bloke, the systems work, you'll receive daily notes, support when and if you need it , subs. are very low and we have a great bunch of members.

If I add anything else, I'll just be parroting what's already on Matt's website, blogs, racing diaries, seminars and podcasts, but if you do have any questions then drop him a line, he's very approachable and finally, by all means ask me anything if you want to.

Regards for now.
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Brovashift
Posts: 475
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 12:35 am

Bit late to the party I know, but I will throw my hat in the ring for BFP 👍

I've done Carl's and BFP, and imo BFP edges it for me. Carl's is good, but like it has been mentioned already, you've got to have a fast brain to trade Carl's way on the ladders. I have found BFP is making me a much better trader, much more patient and disciplined, waiting to see a clear opportunity. If you try and be a maverick in-play you are likely to get your pants pulled down lol... makes you learn quick!

I do find myself sitting on my hands a lot sometimes, but not losing money almost feels like a win lol. I don't trade pre-off much now, but I do look for one specific setup when I'm inbetween races, and will trade mentally or with small stakes, like £2 stakes. The other day I saw my setup, or variation of, and scaled in with £10 stakes, possibly a little bit of bordem going on. But what I noticed was my level of anxiety, from entering the trade to greening up was super intense, something I don't experience in-play.

I would like to use my time a bit more effectively though, by finding more opportunities in-play, which is why I'd like to learn more about the nuances of each course. BFP does provide info on the courses, but I left the Telegram room and didn't realise until after that I lost access to the course info as well. Whoops! 🤦‍♂️
I have been looking at InPlayWithIvan after it was recommended to me, and like the level of detail he goes into on each course, but not seeing it mentioned in this thread by anyone is making me think twice.

Can anyone vouch for InPlayWithIvan course? More for the 'race course' content than the actual trading method. I tried laying losers a year ago, it went great, until it didn't! lol

TIA
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Kai
Posts: 6092
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm

Brovashift wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:38 pm
Can anyone vouch for InPlayWithIvan course?
Not seen that one but I can vouch for Jim's Telegram channel, forgot the name of it but he promises daily gains of up to 1000%!

(Too soon? :D )
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