Book - Mordin on Time

[Brovashift]

Hi all,

Just started perusing this book "Mordin on Time" (pdf) and was wondering if anyone has studied this... is it still relevant and worth a read, as it looks to be quite old.
I'm sure I first saw in on Peter's bookshelf in one of the YouTube videos.

If it is still worth a read, can someone explain to me what he is on about re 'classes A-H'?
I know we have Grades 1-3 with classes 1-7 for flat/NH racing, but I cannot find any reference to classes ever being A-H ever in history, and I've been googling for days and had deep complex conversations with ChatGPT who says they've never been classed A-H, and that they are Mordins own unique set of ratings. If so, how do you categorise your new adjusted times into A-H classes?

TIA

[Derek27]

Hi all,

Just started perusing this book "Mordin on Time" (pdf) and was wondering if anyone has studied this... is it still relevant and worth a read, as it looks to be quite old.
I'm sure I first saw in on Peter's bookshelf in one of the YouTube videos.

If it is still worth a read, can someone explain to me what he is on about re 'classes A-H'?
I know we have Grades 1-3 with classes 1-7 for flat/NH racing, but I cannot find any reference to classes ever being A-H ever in history, and I've been googling for days and had deep complex conversations with ChatGPT who says they've never been classed A-H, and that they are Mordins own unique set of ratings. If so, how do you categorise your new adjusted times into A-H classes?

TIA

May be going back a good few years but races were once classed A to H, with class A races further divided into group 1 to 3 and listed races.

[weemac]

ChatGPT'S talking a load of guff, as usual.

They were always letters until replaced by numbers about 20 years ago. This from Flatstats website from 2013:

1. Class Change
This is based on the old letter system where there class categories are:

Group 1
Group 2
Group 3
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
H

So if a horse is running a Class B today and LTO he was in Group 3 he has dropped 2 classes.

Note the new class structure only has 1-7 so it is not as effective in determing class changes.

[Brovashift]

I see... when I say 'googling for days' I meant a few hours yesterday
ChatGPT is a bit of a let down though, been loving that this week lol

So is Group 1-3 wrapped up in one class I.e. if LTO the horse was in Group 1 and today its racing in Group A, its dropped 1 class? Or would it have dropped 3 classes?

Also can anyone share the full version of Mordin on Time (pdf) by any chance, as I've just noticed mine only has 30+ pages!!

[Derek27]

I see... when I say 'googling for days' I meant a few hours yesterday
ChatGPT is a bit of a let down though, been loving that this week lol

So is Group 1-3 wrapped up in one class I.e. if LTO the horse was in Group 1 and today its racing in Group A, its dropped 1 class? Or would it have dropped 3 classes?

Also can anyone share the full version of Mordin on Time (pdf) by any chance, as I've just noticed mine only has 30+ pages!!

There is no group A and no longer a class A. I haven't been following racing for years but unless anything's changed, Group 1, 2, 3 and listed races are all Class 1 races. In fact, I'm not even sure if there are any Class 1 races that are not group or listed races.

[weemac]

I thought the group and listed races were pattern class races, with the handicaps being class 1-7, formerly A-G.

[Derek27]

I thought the group and listed races were pattern class races, with the handicaps being class 1-7, formerly A-G.

Last year's first day at Royal Ascot. The figure in brackets denotes the class number.

There are a few listed handicaps that would be Class 1 and there are lower-grade non-handicaps like condition races, novices' races, maidens, etc.

Screenshot 2023-02-27 002055.gif

[Brovashift]

So with regards to working with Mordins speed ratings, am I right in thinking if I start with Hcaps 1-7 as his A-G, and then anything outside that create my own rating e.g.
Group 1 (1) = A1 or A+++
Group 2 (1) = A2 or A++
Etc...

He says to ignore 2yo and 3yo (for reasons I haven't read yet), so can probably leave out Mdns, Novs, etc. For now.

Need to Google "Pattern class races"...

[Derek27]

So with regards to working with Mordins speed ratings, am I right in thinking if I start with Hcaps 1-7 as his A-G, and then anything outside that create my own rating e.g.
Group 1 (1) = A1 or A+++
Group 2 (1) = A2 or A++
Etc...

He says to ignore 2yo and 3yo (for reasons I haven't read yet), so can probably leave out Mdns, Novs, etc. For now.

Need to Google "Pattern class races"...

Handicap classes are based on an official rating range. I don't know if the old classes are mapped on to the new classes or whether the range for each class has changed.

[ODPaul82]

There are a couple of incomplete PDF versions available via google books
Think I had to use two seperate ones and even then I didn't have the full content so in the end I went to the British Library to read it in it's entireity.

If you google "Mordin on time google books" then click on preview book that was the one which had more content if I recall.

I only loaded in about a years worth of BHR data before getting sidetracked by something else.
A years-worth is just a small dataset but I couldn't find anything particularly discernable to trade against from the numbers that I was getting out.

I also adjusted the calculations to be based in meters rather than furlongs

[wearthefoxhat]

I just tested out the Microsoft-Bing alternative to Chat GPT. It recommends websites, but produces an AI version too.

Bing.png

[Brovashift]

Thanks, I will try some more googling today to see what I can find. I checked my local library but not available there. And online I'm not paying £118 for a £9.95 book, even with 20 years inflation lol.

Can anyone recommend alternatives for calculating speed ratings, as I'm sure today most of this type of info should be available online somewhere. I was reading SpeedRatings.com/getting started last night which was making a lot of sense, but this is a paid service as opposed to a 'How To'.

Really all I am trying to do at this stage is create a set of avg times for each distance at each course, and use that to build out from.

Ah just seen that about Bing chatbot, I've been using the one from Open AI. Maybe I should try Bing. Although aren't they one of the same maybe it's learnt from when I asked it the other day and it's gone off and read up on the subject lol. Gonna need a real life John Connor soon, when this AI tries to take over lol

[wearthefoxhat]

So, I thought I'd ask the Bing AI for info on the Nick Mordin book, hope it helps a little.

SpeedRatings1.png

Spped Ratings2.png

Applied to a race.png

[wearthefoxhat]

Adjustments.

adjust.png

[Euler]

Just started perusing this book "Mordin on Time" (pdf) and was wondering if anyone has studied this... is it still relevant and worth a read, as it looks to be quite old.
I'm sure I first saw in on Peter's bookshelf in one of the YouTube videos.

I'm always interested in what traditionalist think about a sport, as most people have never thought about it in a trading context. So researching what others have done in the past or are now doing, is interesting to me.