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Australian racing
That's certainly true this week. I was making a loss for the week at the close of yesterday and thought I might even evade PC. Decent night last night but it's amazing how little you need to win to fall under PC.
I suppose it might be worth looking into laying the field, but the beauty of Randwick and Rosehill is that the price moves up and down like a heartbeat. You need to back and lay to take full advantage.
That would likely lead to a tap on the shoulder from Betfair as it costs them. Those charges are there because of how Racing NSW charges.
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ShaunWhite
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- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
Is that the state rule or Betfair's? And would 10 x $10 bets at the track be counted differently to the same on Betfair that would go down on paper as $100 total.
Or maybe Betfair have to collect TC on bets they needn't to cover Derek's clinical rule squeezing
My understanding is that on course punters have to pay turnover charge. Betfair have to pay the same charge for back bets only but largely absorb most of it. I think TC for the big meetings is 3% but Betfair only charge customers 1.5%.ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:01 pmIs that the state rule or Betfair's? And would 10 x $10 bets at the track be counted differently to the same on Betfair that would go down on paper as $100 total.
Or maybe Betfair have to collect TC on bets they needn't to cover Derek's clinical rule squeezing
More detail on it hereDerek27 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:45 pmMy understanding is that on course punters have to pay turnover charge. Betfair have to pay the same charge for back bets only but largely absorb most of it. I think TC for the big meetings is 3% but Betfair only charge customers 1.5%.ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:01 pmIs that the state rule or Betfair's? And would 10 x $10 bets at the track be counted differently to the same on Betfair that would go down on paper as $100 total.
Or maybe Betfair have to collect TC on bets they needn't to cover Derek's clinical rule squeezing
https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/help/acc ... er-charge/
The way Betfair charge on NSW racing is set based on turnover and margin per
"The Turnover Charge will only apply when punters have wagered in 1 or more RNSW markets with equal to or over $6,000 in back bet volume during the course of a particular week (Monday to Sunday GMT). In addition, a customer would have to pay less than 1.25% of their Back Bet Turnover in commission to Betfair"
My comment that Betfair will likely have issue with a lay only strategy (at low margin) even though not in breach of the charge condition, stems from Betfair calling me years ago when I was operating that type of strategy. I was not breaking any Betfair rule, but it was costing Betfair on NSW markets. They threatened to close my account or close my Australian wallet (shows how long ago it was)
The exact charge from Racing NSW and how Betfair charged customers would have been different then, but the impact still the same.
"Unfortunately, Racing NSW have a race field fee approach (the Turnover Model) where every “back bet” attracts a race field fee, even if a customer is trading and therefore generating very high levels of back bet volume relative to their eventual net customer winning position.Wildly wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:43 pmMore detail on it hereDerek27 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:45 pmMy understanding is that on course punters have to pay turnover charge. Betfair have to pay the same charge for back bets only but largely absorb most of it. I think TC for the big meetings is 3% but Betfair only charge customers 1.5%.ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:01 pm
Is that the state rule or Betfair's? And would 10 x $10 bets at the track be counted differently to the same on Betfair that would go down on paper as $100 total.
Or maybe Betfair have to collect TC on bets they needn't to cover Derek's clinical rule squeezing
https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/help/acc ... er-charge/
The way Betfair charge on NSW racing is set based on turnover and margin per
"The Turnover Charge will only apply when punters have wagered in 1 or more RNSW markets with equal to or over $6,000 in back bet volume during the course of a particular week (Monday to Sunday GMT). In addition, a customer would have to pay less than 1.25% of their Back Bet Turnover in commission to Betfair"
My comment that Betfair will likely have issue with a lay only strategy (at low margin) even though not in breach of the charge condition, stems from Betfair calling me years ago when I was operating that type of strategy. I was not breaking any Betfair rule, but it was costing Betfair on NSW markets. They threatened to close my account or close my Australian wallet (shows how long ago it was)
The exact charge from Racing NSW and how Betfair charged customers would have been different then, but the impact still the same.
The Turnover Charge is aimed at customer activity which generates large volumes of back bets without providing Betfair with the corresponding revenue to cover the race field fees imposed."
That would suggest that NSW doesn't charge Betfair for lay bets so I can't see why under today's rules they would be concerned with lay bets. I also don't understand how NSW could possibly know how many back bets Betfair processed. Surely they could let a few big ones slip away.
I’ve mentioned before ... if a person lays every horse bar one - that person has created a synthetic back bet. It is not that hard to do.Derek27 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:27 am"Unfortunately, Racing NSW have a race field fee approach (the Turnover Model) where every “back bet” attracts a race field fee, even if a customer is trading and therefore generating very high levels of back bet volume relative to their eventual net customer winning position.Wildly wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:43 pmMore detail on it here
https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/help/acc ... er-charge/
The way Betfair charge on NSW racing is set based on turnover and margin per
"The Turnover Charge will only apply when punters have wagered in 1 or more RNSW markets with equal to or over $6,000 in back bet volume during the course of a particular week (Monday to Sunday GMT). In addition, a customer would have to pay less than 1.25% of their Back Bet Turnover in commission to Betfair"
My comment that Betfair will likely have issue with a lay only strategy (at low margin) even though not in breach of the charge condition, stems from Betfair calling me years ago when I was operating that type of strategy. I was not breaking any Betfair rule, but it was costing Betfair on NSW markets. They threatened to close my account or close my Australian wallet (shows how long ago it was)
The exact charge from Racing NSW and how Betfair charged customers would have been different then, but the impact still the same.
The Turnover Charge is aimed at customer activity which generates large volumes of back bets without providing Betfair with the corresponding revenue to cover the race field fees imposed."
That would suggest that NSW doesn't charge Betfair for lay bets so I can't see why under today's rules they would be concerned with lay bets. I also don't understand how NSW could possibly know how many back bets Betfair processed. Surely they could let a few big ones slip away.
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