Create a No Lose Trade on Fav and Profit on the Field Guardian Automation Bot

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Dallas
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Mzolisi12 wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:02 pm
Hi Dallas,

Will you please tell me if the trade I made Kempton 18th April - 17:05, was a Win or Loss, from the two attached images (Kempton 1, Kempton 2). I used a "LAY and BACK by liability" (Guardian Automation Bot) to initiate the trade, which is based on the "Create a No Lose Trade on Fav and Profit on the Field Guardian Automation Bot" principles.

I also attached, you will find the Log for the Kempton 18th April - 17:05 trade.

I will greatly appreciate your help with this question, and thank you so much for your amazing help

Mzo

Kempton 1.PNG

Kempton 2.PNG

Kempton 18th April - 1705 Trade Log.PNG
That log is showing only one large lay bet of £552 was placed/matched

But the P/L figures in your screenshot show a liability of £525 on the other selections which suggests you had a back bet matched also for around £27

But to answer your question, you would of won or lost whatever the P/L is next to the winning runner
Mzolisi12
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:10 pm

Hi Dallas,

Thank you very much for your response, where you say I would have won or lost whatever the P/L is next to the winning runner. Does that mean I would have lost £2,874.98 on this trade. If that is the case, how do you get to "Create a No Lose Trade"...? When it happens, do you get your Net Stake back...? What does it show on the One-Click or Ladder Screens...?

In your post, you say "to succeed in "Creating a No Lose Trade", your bet must be fully matched". Does it mean the initial Lay or Back must be matched, or both Lay and Back must be matched..?

If the latter is the case, then there is no way you can succeed in "Creating a No Lose Trade", because when the selected runner is the winner, you never even get a chance to get an opposing bet to be matched or even Green Up.

So, how do I Create a No Lose Trade...?

Please bear with me Dallas, I really want to understand this principle.

Mzo
Kempton 1.PNG
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Dallas
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Mzolisi12 wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:56 pm
Hi Dallas,

Thank you very much for your response, where you say I would have won or lost whatever the P/L is next to the winning runner. Does that mean I would have lost £2,874.98 on this trade. If that is the case, how do you get to "Create a No Lose Trade"...? When it happens, do you get your Net Stake back...? What does it show on the One-Click or Ladder Screens...?

In your post, you say "to succeed in "Creating a No Lose Trade", your bet must be fully matched". Does it mean the initial Lay or Back must be matched, or both Lay and Back must be matched..?

If the latter is the case, then there is no way you can succeed in "Creating a No Lose Trade", because when the selected runner is the winner, you never even get a chance to get an opposing bet to be matched or even Green Up.

So, how do I Create a No Lose Trade...?

Please bear with me Dallas, I really want to understand this principle.

Mzo

Kempton 1.PNG
If Roman Mist won the race yes you'd have lost £2.8k

Both the back and lay bets need to be matched to generate a 'No Lose Trade on one runner and profit on the rest of the field

But your screenshot shows you backed the 3rd fav and the stake used is way above what was set in the original file and not the runner it targets so I'm not sure what else you've changed without seeing some screenshots of the rules file as it now is to advised what to do to correct it
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Dallas
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Dallas wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:43 pm
Mzolisi12 wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:56 pm
Hi Dallas,

Thank you very much for your response, where you say I would have won or lost whatever the P/L is next to the winning runner. Does that mean I would have lost £2,874.98 on this trade. If that is the case, how do you get to "Create a No Lose Trade"...? When it happens, do you get your Net Stake back...? What does it show on the One-Click or Ladder Screens...?

In your post, you say "to succeed in "Creating a No Lose Trade", your bet must be fully matched". Does it mean the initial Lay or Back must be matched, or both Lay and Back must be matched..?

If the latter is the case, then there is no way you can succeed in "Creating a No Lose Trade", because when the selected runner is the winner, you never even get a chance to get an opposing bet to be matched or even Green Up.

So, how do I Create a No Lose Trade...?

Please bear with me Dallas, I really want to understand this principle.

Mzo

Kempton 1.PNG
If Roman Mist won the race yes you'd have lost £2.8k

Both the back and lay bets need to be matched to generate a 'No Lose Trade on one runner and profit on the rest of the field

But your screenshot shows you backed the 3rd fav and the stake used is way above what was set in the original file and not the runner it targets so I'm not sure what else you've changed without seeing some screenshots of the rules file as it now is to advised what to do to correct it
It would show a £0.00 on the fav (or whatever ever runner you've ran the rule on

This post shows how to do it manually and what your one-click and ladder screens would look like once the trade is complete
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=13551
Mzolisi12
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:10 pm

Hi Dallas,

Thank you again for your much needed help. I was wondering if you can point me to a bot or strategy that will help me to avoid the most likely horse to win, within the four favourites in a horse race. Alternatively, it can be a bot or strategy to place a reversal Back Bet, on a losing Lay Bet to reduce or eliminate my losses.

I must be able to combine the bot or strategy, with a Back/Lay or Lay/Back Guardian Automation Bot, without clashing when running. I will also greatly appreciate your help in setting up the recommended bot or strategy.

Many thanks again.

Mzo
davefleming2000
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:47 pm

Hi Dallas,
I have been experimenting with this using different amounts of ticks. I would like to transfer this to backing the fav (and possibly more) at certain ticks below the SP. How can I do this?
Regards
Dave
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Dallas
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davefleming2000 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 9:34 am
Hi Dallas,
I have been experimenting with this using different amounts of ticks. I would like to transfer this to backing the fav (and possibly more) at certain ticks below the SP. How can I do this?
Regards
Dave
You just need to change the arm time and place at options on the back bet rule to something similar to the lay bet uses,
and add a 'Stored Value condition' to test the back price of the selection is less than the actual SP of a selection minus the 'X' number of ticks you are looking for

You'll then need to update the place at option of the lay rule so that now places its lay lower
Also I can't remember if it had this already or not, but if not you'll need to add a
Number of matched bets condition on selection is greater than 0
and that will stop it triggering until the back bet is matched
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gstar1975
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Dallas wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:28 pm
TIP

This type for trade requires the runner to shorten in-play, if you would rather select a nominated runner for this instead of the fav on the 'General' Tab of the Back Fav & Lay Fav (in-play) rules change the applies to 'Guardian Nominated Selection 1'


Noms.JPG


After that with your markets added to guardian you can quickly select the runner you want to run the rule on from the main guardian page using the 'Autmation Nominated Selection 1' Column (any left blank just means the rule won't trigger on that race)


Noms1.JPG
How can I change this so that if I have a red then I want to have a zero loss on the Fav and spread the loss on the field?
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Dallas
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Location: Working From Home

gstar1975 wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 12:44 pm
Dallas wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:28 pm
TIP

This type for trade requires the runner to shorten in-play, if you would rather select a nominated runner for this instead of the fav on the 'General' Tab of the Back Fav & Lay Fav (in-play) rules change the applies to 'Guardian Nominated Selection 1'


Noms.JPG


After that with your markets added to guardian you can quickly select the runner you want to run the rule on from the main guardian page using the 'Autmation Nominated Selection 1' Column (any left blank just means the rule won't trigger on that race)


Noms1.JPG
How can I change this so that if I have a red then I want to have a zero loss on the Fav and spread the loss on the field?
There'd be nothing to change, that what would happen if you layed at higher odds than you backed at
icey1962
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:14 pm

Hi,
I'm trying to understand what is going on as I'm not getting the same outcomes as the OP ( the one where a Free Bet is created if both bets matched) I originally set up the one-click screen as instructed in the post +/- 5 ticks. I then set up a automation rule to do the similar but only +/- 4 ticks ( well I thought I had) but instead of showing a no loss on the Fav and a win on the others I get negative values.
( see pic) but sometimes it seems to work ok. I'd be grateful for any guidance on where I'm going wrong. TIA
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Dallas
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icey1962 wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:44 pm
Hi,
I'm trying to understand what is going on as I'm not getting the same outcomes as the OP ( the one where a Free Bet is created if both bets matched) I originally set up the one-click screen as instructed in the post +/- 5 ticks. I then set up a automation rule to do the similar but only +/- 4 ticks ( well I thought I had) but instead of showing a no loss on the Fav and a win on the others I get negative values.
( see pic) but sometimes it seems to work ok. I'd be grateful for any guidance on where I'm going wrong. TIA
By triggering as soon as the market goes in-play after all the unkept pre-off money is cancelled and before the in-play money starts getting placed you will be getting one or both bets matched at better prices than you placed them at (and that the stake was calculated for)

So if you wait till a few seconds after going in-play then trigger the bets you'll get them matched at the entry prices more often
icey1962
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:14 pm

Arggh ok that makes sense thank you for the reply :)
ajanthony
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:37 pm

Hi Dallas,
I notice with this bot you have used the maximum liability staking method instead of a fixed amount. Is there any particular reason for not having a fixed amount.
Another question not related to this bot if you don't mind. I am trialling a "Lay the Field" bot. I am playing around with the odds but as an example using odds of 5 would you use fixed stake or a maximum liability. What would you also suggest as odds for this type of bot.
Regards,
Anthony
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kenbruce
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 1:18 pm

I have tried Create a no lose trade
Sometimes backs the fav and lays the fav so it spreads across the field witch is write

But Sometimes it lays the fav without backing the fav witch means the fav has to lose witch is Not creatin a no lose trade.

Have i done something Wrong

Ken
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Dallas
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kenbruce wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2023 2:30 pm
I have tried Create a no lose trade
Sometimes backs the fav and lays the fav so it spreads across the field witch is write

But Sometimes it lays the fav without backing the fav witch means the fav has to lose witch is Not creatin a no lose trade.

Have i done something Wrong

Ken
That's probably due to your Guardian refresh rate being set to slow (maybe its still on its default rate of 1second)
The back bet rule is only armed for 5 seconds so the market must be refreshed during this time for it to trigger

The following page explains how Guardian cycles and refreshes markets and where you can change the settings to ensure your rules trigger optimally
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11491

So ensuring the market is refreshed will resolve the issue for you

In addition to that link you can also make the following changes to the actual rules file
1) Arm the back bet rule for longer ie, something like 00:00:30 secs before the start until 00:00:05 secs after the start
2) Add a number of matched bets condition to the the lay bet rule to test
The matched bets on selection is greater than 0

That second option will ensure the lay bet can only trigger IF the back bet rule has been matched
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