Today's Football

Football, Soccer - whatever you call it. It is the beautiful game.
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jamesg46
Posts: 3419
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

Realrocknrolla wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:30 pm
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 @ Spurs
Losing £100 has never been so bitter sweet.
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wearthefoxhat
Posts: 2344
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

Who would have thought Ralk Rangnick for Man Utd?...

Wait a minute....

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greenmark
Posts: 1910
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:02 pm
greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:52 pm
But my opinion is that footballers are using performance enhancing drugs and it looks like something has changed.
Oh dear! Have to say I didn't expect you to join the dark side.

If any of these guys you mentioned were using PEDs I think they would have shown up during the barrage of tests they underwent when rushed to hospital. There have been many more footballers than the ones you named who have had undetected heart conditions that have brought an end to their careers. If even one of them were doing anything dodgy the world would have heard about it.
Sorry. But avoiding detection of PED's is well- established. The whole point of PED's is they boost your training and are gone before somone rock up to test you. Armstong got found out only because he was betrayed.
And also, any football club that doesn't screen their players for health issues is failing. So it amazes me these these guys are even allowed on the pitch if screening is half-decent.
So my view is these moments aren't about disease or failure of health screening. They are about relentless use of PED's that without obsessive attention to detail can go wrong.
Trader Pat
Posts: 3018
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:12 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:02 pm
greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:52 pm
But my opinion is that footballers are using performance enhancing drugs and it looks like something has changed.
Oh dear! Have to say I didn't expect you to join the dark side.

If any of these guys you mentioned were using PEDs I think they would have shown up during the barrage of tests they underwent when rushed to hospital. There have been many more footballers than the ones you named who have had undetected heart conditions that have brought an end to their careers. If even one of them were doing anything dodgy the world would have heard about it.
Sorry. But avoiding detection of PED's is well- established. The whole point of PED's is they boost your training and are gone before somone rock up to test you. Armstong got found out only because he was betrayed.
And also, any football club that doesn't screen their players for health issues is failing. So it amazes me these these guys are even allowed on the pitch if screening is half-decent.
So my view is these moments aren't about disease or failure of health screening. They are about relentless use of PED's that without obsessive attention to detail can go wrong.
Armstrong didn't get 'found out', it was common knowledge that he was a doper, along with pretty much everyone he was racing against and alongside. Even cycling teams were complicit in doping which is why so many of them were kicked out of the sport.

I agree that in a sport like athletics avoiding detection is possible and fairly routine but not in football. Footballers are competing practically all year round, it would be much much harder to avoid detection. As I've already said a lot of players have had these problems and none of them have been linked to PED's. Quite a few of them though have been linked to undetected congenital heart conditions and other heart defects that aren't routinely screened for which is why there has been a push within the sport for broader screening of players.
greenmark
Posts: 1910
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:27 pm
greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:12 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:02 pm


Oh dear! Have to say I didn't expect you to join the dark side.

If any of these guys you mentioned were using PEDs I think they would have shown up during the barrage of tests they underwent when rushed to hospital. There have been many more footballers than the ones you named who have had undetected heart conditions that have brought an end to their careers. If even one of them were doing anything dodgy the world would have heard about it.
Sorry. But avoiding detection of PED's is well- established. The whole point of PED's is they boost your training and are gone before somone rock up to test you. Armstong got found out only because he was betrayed.
And also, any football club that doesn't screen their players for health issues is failing. So it amazes me these these guys are even allowed on the pitch if screening is half-decent.
So my view is these moments aren't about disease or failure of health screening. They are about relentless use of PED's that without obsessive attention to detail can go wrong.
Armstrong didn't get 'found out', it was common knowledge that he was a doper, along with pretty much everyone he was racing against and alongside. Even cycling teams were complicit in doping which is why so many of them were kicked out of the sport.

I agree that in a sport like athletics avoiding detection is possible and fairly routine but not in football. Footballers are competing practically all year round, it would be much much harder to avoid detection. As I've already said a lot of players have had these problems and none of them have been linked to PED's. Quite a few of them though have been linked to undetected congenital heart conditions and other heart defects that aren't routinely screened for which is why there has been a push within the sport for broader screening of players.
Fair enough. I've broken an unwritten rule on here. Provide a reference for your opinion.
And I don't have a shred of evidence.
So I shall withdraw my comments with as much grace as I can. :-)
greenmark
Posts: 1910
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:34 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:27 pm
greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:12 pm

Sorry. But avoiding detection of PED's is well- established. The whole point of PED's is they boost your training and are gone before somone rock up to test you. Armstong got found out only because he was betrayed.
And also, any football club that doesn't screen their players for health issues is failing. So it amazes me these these guys are even allowed on the pitch if screening is half-decent.
So my view is these moments aren't about disease or failure of health screening. They are about relentless use of PED's that without obsessive attention to detail can go wrong.
Armstrong didn't get 'found out', it was common knowledge that he was a doper, along with pretty much everyone he was racing against and alongside. Even cycling teams were complicit in doping which is why so many of them were kicked out of the sport.

I agree that in a sport like athletics avoiding detection is possible and fairly routine but not in football. Footballers are competing practically all year round, it would be much much harder to avoid detection. As I've already said a lot of players have had these problems and none of them have been linked to PED's. Quite a few of them though have been linked to undetected congenital heart conditions and other heart defects that aren't routinely screened for which is why there has been a push within the sport for broader screening of players.
Fair enough. I've broken an unwritten rule on here. Provide a reference for your opinion.
And I don't have a shred of evidence.
So I shall withdraw my comments with as much grace as I can. :-)
OK Pat you stirred me up now.
The EPL has 500 odd squad players.
According to this reference only about 1800 tests for each year across 2017-18 and 2018-2019.
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/prem ... foi-338399
That is evidently pathetic. No?
Help me out here, I'm trying to understand.
Trader Pat
Posts: 3018
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:55 pm
greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:34 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:27 pm


Armstrong didn't get 'found out', it was common knowledge that he was a doper, along with pretty much everyone he was racing against and alongside. Even cycling teams were complicit in doping which is why so many of them were kicked out of the sport.

I agree that in a sport like athletics avoiding detection is possible and fairly routine but not in football. Footballers are competing practically all year round, it would be much much harder to avoid detection. As I've already said a lot of players have had these problems and none of them have been linked to PED's. Quite a few of them though have been linked to undetected congenital heart conditions and other heart defects that aren't routinely screened for which is why there has been a push within the sport for broader screening of players.
Fair enough. I've broken an unwritten rule on here. Provide a reference for your opinion.
And I don't have a shred of evidence.
So I shall withdraw my comments with as much grace as I can. :-)
OK Pat you stirred me up now.
The EPL has 500 odd squad players.
According to this reference only about 1800 tests for each year across 2017-18 and 2018-2019.
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/prem ... foi-338399
That is evidently pathetic. No?
Help me out here, I'm trying to understand.
:D

I'm not saying the amount of testing is sufficient it obviously isn't, and players have tested positive for PED's in the past so I'm not saying footballers are above that kind of thing.

I just think with all the high profile instances of players collapsing in recent seasons that if any of them had been using PED's then either there would have been some trace found in their systems or at the very least some suspicions would have been raised by medical professionals in the absence of other causes . The fact that most of these cases have been explained by other factors means it would have to be widespread cover up of some kind which is very unlikely.
greenmark
Posts: 1910
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:35 pm
greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:55 pm
greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:34 pm

Fair enough. I've broken an unwritten rule on here. Provide a reference for your opinion.
And I don't have a shred of evidence.
So I shall withdraw my comments with as much grace as I can. :-)
OK Pat you stirred me up now.
The EPL has 500 odd squad players.
According to this reference only about 1800 tests for each year across 2017-18 and 2018-2019.
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/prem ... foi-338399
That is evidently pathetic. No?
Help me out here, I'm trying to understand.
:D

I'm not saying the amount of testing is sufficient it obviously isn't, and players have tested positive for PED's in the past so I'm not saying footballers are above that kind of thing.

I just think with all the high profile instances of players collapsing in recent seasons that if any of them had been using PED's then either there would have been some trace found in their systems or at the very least some suspicions would have been raised by medical professionals in the absence of other causes . The fact that most of these cases have been explained by other factors means it would have to be widespread cover up of some kind which is very unlikely.
Ok, I'm disputing that the drug and health testing regime is working. And that is what worries me. It's there in front of us, but it's a really unacceptable landscape for the football heirachy and possibly even the fanbase. The fans may well be willing to burn their players out. But I am not. This needs to be looked at.
Super-fit athletes should not be collapsing doing their job. It's ridiculous!
jamesg46
Posts: 3419
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:11 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:35 pm
greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:55 pm

OK Pat you stirred me up now.
The EPL has 500 odd squad players.
According to this reference only about 1800 tests for each year across 2017-18 and 2018-2019.
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/prem ... foi-338399
That is evidently pathetic. No?
Help me out here, I'm trying to understand.
:D

I'm not saying the amount of testing is sufficient it obviously isn't, and players have tested positive for PED's in the past so I'm not saying footballers are above that kind of thing.

I just think with all the high profile instances of players collapsing in recent seasons that if any of them had been using PED's then either there would have been some trace found in their systems or at the very least some suspicions would have been raised by medical professionals in the absence of other causes . The fact that most of these cases have been explained by other factors means it would have to be widespread cover up of some kind which is very unlikely.
Ok, I'm disputing that the drug and health testing regime is working. And that is what worries me. It's there in front of us, but it's a really unacceptable landscape for the football heirachy and possibly even the fanbase. The fans may well be willing to burn their players out. But I am not. This needs to be looked at.
Super-fit athletes should not be collapsing doing their job. It's ridiculous!
I don’t believe that fans actually realised the seriousness of the issue. It’s obviously become a social media talking point in the last few days but the amount of time between Fabrice Muamba & Christian Eriksen, being the only 2 main stream incidents that come to my memory & probably millions of other peoples memories too was massive. It “seemed” so rare that it was possibly just wrote off to many as some freak incident.

When you look at the arguments going back and forth it’s clear to see that this has been happening for some time & at an increasing rate but 3 players in the same week & given so much attention (be it agenda driven or not) is surely a trigger for the sport itself to take a deeper look into the causality & what can be done.

I’ll leave you with another one that not many people were aware of…. it seems all to common.

https://www.shropshirestar.com/sport/fo ... rt-checks/
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Kai
Posts: 3498
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm
Location: Hogwarts, UK

Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:27 pm
I've already said a lot of players have had these problems and none of them have been linked to PED's.
Speaking of PED's lads...

Ay, caramba! :o

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