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Trader Pat
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Spare a thought for Spurs fans, even their new sponsors are taking the pi$s :lol:

https://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/spurs-e ... z5k9o9zdvb
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Morbius
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Kai wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:27 pm
I was actually extremely surprised to see Liverpool at the top earlier in the season, thought they coped quite well up until a point.

Don't really want to play the blame game so I will keep it very short, I pointed my finger earlier at board level and starting the season with only 3 CBs of which 2 are very injury prone, but all injuries aside, an equally big factor is Covid and the fact that Fort Anfield is not a real place anymore. Nobody misses the fans like Liverpool does, think that's an objective enough thing to say.

There's no doubt in my mind that top 4 would be very achievable if this were a normal football season with fans.

But it's fine, as fans we've already been more than blessed with success in the last few years, it's okay if someone else has a crack at it for a bit. I'm personally satisfied with just playing attractive football and challenging for trophies :)

But I don't really want to see Liverpool play Granada or Slavia in the Europa league next season :cry:

Yes you're right about the fact that Covid effects are not the same for every team and this is easily demonstrable given the data that connects the results by home teams to away teams and stadia size so this is factual and its probably a defining factor for Liverpool potentially making top 4 or not. Also as you point out, the board maybe not spending in areas where they should have spent is also a factor but this gets back to the point that the PL like F1 isn't a level playing field which makes Jurgen's title last year superior to Pep's in 2019 IMHO.

For me given what they have spent, City are probably around where they should be with 3 titles in 4 seasons but their CL record is woeful even before Pep arrived. 2 semi's in all this time is a very poor return and eliminations against teams that were never going to win it like Tottenham/Lyon/Monaco has underlined it even more. Need to remember that Liverpool could have easily won back to back titles and back to back CLs with a bit more luck so this run has been incredible and all great runs must end. Even Ferguson had blips and I recall a conversation with a United fan back in 2014 when I said United should sack Moyes (should never have got the job IMO). He just quoted how United had given Fergie time when he first got the job to which I pointed out that United's share price couldn't drop by half a billion back in 1987!!!!!

This is the environment and reality of the PL now, managers rarely get the luxury of time.
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Kai
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Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:44 pm
Spare a thought for Spurs fans, even their new sponsors are taking the pi$s :lol:

https://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/spurs-e ... z5k9o9zdvb
I pity anyone that has to endure Mourinho as their manager :D That's way worse than Hodgson.

Let's be real here, the only reason why Jose even landed that job is because Levy always had a man crush on him. I suspect it will be a very expensive divorce too :D

Not heard from Kaf in a while, would love to get his opinion on that now, hope he's well.
Trader Pat
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Morbius wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:49 pm
This is the environment and reality of the PL now, managers rarely get the luxury of time.

I think United is the exception. Solskjaer has turned it around recently but he probably would have been sacked by now at any other 'Big 6' club. And that's not credit to the United owners, they don't seem to care as long as Utd finish in the Top 4 and they can continue to use the club as a cash cow.
Trader Pat
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Kai wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:56 pm

I pity anyone that has to endure Mourinho as their manager :D That's way worse than Hodgson.

I was never really a fan of Mourinho until he took the Inter job, I've always had a soft spot for Inter but love him or hate him he's never boring! :D
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Morbius
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Kai wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:27 pm


But I don't really want to see Liverpool play Granada or Slavia in the Europa league next season :cry:


But that's a derivative of the PL being tough and the problems from the previous season taking effect. United and Chelsea have had to take their Europa League "medicine" in recent years but IMO that competition gets a bad rap. When your lifting the Europa League trophy, the only two teams that don't envy you are the CL finalists. It's only a matter of time before City end up in that competition, all it takes is a tough CL group and a few ropey performances and you finish 3rd and in it you go.

The hard part of the Europa is getting the balance between playing on Thursday and playing tough prem games a short while after and the league don't always help either. For a team like Liverpool it may be better to take it on the chin and have no European football at all when they are attempting to recover from such a bad run like this.
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Morbius
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Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:58 pm
Morbius wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:49 pm
This is the environment and reality of the PL now, managers rarely get the luxury of time.

I think United is the exception. Solskjaer has turned it around recently but he probably would have been sacked by now at any other 'Big 6' club. And that's not credit to the United owners, they don't seem to care as long as Utd finish in the Top 4 and they can continue to use the club as a cash cow.

OGS was somebody else who I thought shouldn't have got the job. A team like United should be aspiring to get back to where they were namely winning the league and three CL finals in 4 years between 2008-2011. I never saw how a manager like Moyes with one 4th place finish on his CV and an FA Cup final with Everton was going to deliver that. Ditto with OGS with Molde and Cardiff City on his. I think you're right about the owners, its about the money but for how long will the fan base wear that??? That fan base and subsequent value was built on on the field success and not top four and Europa League/CL last 16 exits. They can only keep this going for so long. 8 years since a title and 10 years since a CL final, they are living on past glories as it is and that's going to reflect on the players they can sign.

Given his lack of experience, I actually think Olly has done a great job but is he the man to lead them back to where they were?? I very much doubt it because the board don't seem to be on that page of the book. They messed up big time in 2014. They knew the time was coming for Ferguson to retire and they had ample time to prepare a high quality replacement so who did they get....Moyes!!!! He lasted 10 months and 2 of that was the close season because he got the job in June iirc. Then LVG who was past his sell by date follows him so by the time Jose gets there they have slipped a country mile and they follow Jose with a managerial trainee and whichever way you slice and dice it...that's what he is. But he's learning and improving and you have to give him credit for that because top 4 finishes are not automatic as I said before
Trader Pat
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Morbius wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:22 pm
OGS was somebody else who I thought shouldn't have got the job. A team like United should be aspiring to get back to where they were namely winning the league and three CL finals in 4 years between 2008-2011. I never saw how a manager like Moyes with one 4th place finish on his CV and an FA Cup final with Everton was going to deliver that. Ditto with OGS with Molde and Cardiff City on his. I think you're right about the owners, its about the money but for how long will the fan base wear that??? That fan base and subsequent value was built on on the field success and not top four and Europa League/CL last 16 exits. They can only keep this going for so long. 8 years since a title and 10 years since a CL final, they are living on past glories as it is and that's going to reflect on the players they can sign.
I had the same opinion of Ole, I thought he was out of his depth but he seems to have turned it around so it will be interesting to see how Utd get on next season. Moyes time was up at Utd when he said they weren't on the same level as Liverpool, the fans had the knives out as soon as he said that. Even if it was true you don't say something like that as coach of Utd.
greenmark
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Kind of weird the way Mourinho has fallen from his pedastal as a serial winner. For me, I thought the moment he poked Tito Vilanova was pivotal. Then we had the foul treatment of the Chelsea physio. And since then he's been less charisma and more (as Kai said) digging out his players very publicly.
I may be wrong but Fergie never did that. He was very keen that criticism stayed in-house.

I think the idea with Moyes was based on what he achieved with relatively meagre resources at Everton. Give him a big budget (even with a wobbly squad that Fergie left behind) and he could be successful. But there's an interesting feature of the fan mentality I've noticed. To lose gloriously is better than to win boringly. I don't get it TBH. To win is everthing.
And regarding "entertainment" there's nothing more entertaining than winning.
Trader Pat
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

greenmark wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:57 pm
To lose gloriously is better than to win boringly. I don't get it TBH. To win is everthing.
Absolutely.

You'd always rather your team win by playing 'sexy' football but I've never heard of a team giving their medals back because the won ugly
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Realrocknrolla
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Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:44 pm
Spare a thought for Spurs fans, even their new sponsors are taking the pi$s :lol:

https://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/spurs-e ... z5k9o9zdvb
Nicked this!!!

Forwarded to all my Spurs mates!!!

Up the Gooners!
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

Realrocknrolla wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:10 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:44 pm
Spare a thought for Spurs fans, even their new sponsors are taking the pi$s :lol:

https://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/spurs-e ... z5k9o9zdvb
Nicked this!!!

Forwarded to all my Spurs mates!!!

Up the Gooners!
:lol:
greenmark
Posts: 4948
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:12 pm
Realrocknrolla wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:10 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:44 pm
Spare a thought for Spurs fans, even their new sponsors are taking the pi$s :lol:

https://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/spurs-e ... z5k9o9zdvb
Nicked this!!!

Forwarded to all my Spurs mates!!!

Up the Gooners!
:lol:
Just googled Gooners, and it has nothing to do with Miligan, Secombe, Sellers or Bentine.
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Morbius
Posts: 492
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Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:32 pm
Morbius wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:22 pm
OGS was somebody else who I thought shouldn't have got the job. A team like United should be aspiring to get back to where they were namely winning the league and three CL finals in 4 years between 2008-2011. I never saw how a manager like Moyes with one 4th place finish on his CV and an FA Cup final with Everton was going to deliver that. Ditto with OGS with Molde and Cardiff City on his. I think you're right about the owners, its about the money but for how long will the fan base wear that??? That fan base and subsequent value was built on on the field success and not top four and Europa League/CL last 16 exits. They can only keep this going for so long. 8 years since a title and 10 years since a CL final, they are living on past glories as it is and that's going to reflect on the players they can sign.
I had the same opinion of Ole, I thought he was out of his depth but he seems to have turned it around so it will be interesting to see how Utd get on next season. Moyes time was up at Utd when he said they weren't on the same level as Liverpool, the fans had the knives out as soon as he said that. Even if it was true you don't say something like that as coach of Utd.

If ever a man looked and sounded out of his depth it was Moyes. The stories from reliable sources coming out of that club are mind numbing. Players had no respect for him and one of the stories that got leaked was in how he took the defenders to one side in training and made them watch footage of Phil Jagielka as a benchmark for how to defend certain types of situations. Can you imagine Rio Ferdinand's reaction to that??? Moyes level can be summed up in two words...Marouane Fellaini. Then they were stuck with him because the level that they had slipped to he could do a job at that level and be useful but talk about cause and effect :-)

United do not deserve their fan base IMO because fans want success and they have sold them short on numerous occasions. If they want to be called a "stellar club" at the same status as Real Madrid, Barcelona etc etc then they need to start performing on the pitch and getting the right people in and spending the money. But to be honest I think its got so bad now that spending money isn't enough. Its going to take a slow build if at all but at least they can mug the fans off for a few seasons in the hope that they are building towards something. Real, Bayern, Barcelona don't end up like this when they change managers but that's a difference in owner mentality. There were catastrophic decisions made in 2013-14 that United are now paying the price for.
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Morbius
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As an add on to the United topic, the effect of their on field performances is now being felt off the pitch. Its not long back where they held the position of the World's richest club although they didn't have number one spot for long iirc but they were never out of the top three. Deloitte currently have them at 4th and Bayern have overtaken them by some way. Liverpool/PSG/City are only just marginally behind them and they could be 7th on that list in a couple of years time. In fact as you go down the top 10 richest clubs, since Ferguson left in 2013, the only team on that list with a worst performance than United in terms of trophies won is Tottenham and they almost don't count lol
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