Today's Football

[Morbius]

Real Madrid arriving at their hotel in Liverpool today.. that has got to be an omen!!

Let's hope so

Looking forward to this match being another magical European night at Anfield

Really hope I'm wrong as I love to see the English sides do well but I would be surprised to see them go through to be honest. Unlike the Barcelona first leg they were outplayed in the first leg and that could have been 6-1. Liverpool just don't look strong enough defensively to stop Real from scoring. For me, if they won the CL this season after everything that's happened would be many times more amazing than the Barce comeback......think Dortmund/City is a coin flip

[Trader Pat]

I'm looking forward to it, Madrid are having problems of their own so its doable.

[Euler]

You can't help but think with no crowd it's going to be a bit of an ask. Would be good if they could pull it off though!

[Kai]

Thiago and Jota benched

[Trader Pat]

Seen a lot of that lately, dominate the game but struggle to put it in the net.

Concentrate on the league now and hopefully be in a position to overhaul the front line in the summer.

[Kai]

Gotta say Madrid was up there for the taking, one of those rare occasions where Klopp makes a right meal of it start to finish, cowardly game management in both legs, especially in tonight's game when Madrid had so many lineup issues and you don't even go for it until it's too late in the game and until everyone is devoid of confidence.

Where do you even start, shocking team selection in both games, cocked it up with that surprise Keita inclusion and embarrassingly subbed him off at 41mins in the 1st leg, lost the tie right there already in the 1st half and shattered Keita's confidence in the process, could have waited 3 mins until HT at least. I guess he wanted to surprise them but backfired spectacularly, has to be record worst performance that Madrid has ever seen over there.

Second game you need goals but you bench your best attacker in insane form, and go with Firmino and Mane who completely lost confidence many months ago, when you know none of them can score if Salah has an off day, Klopp loyal to a fault.

Meanwhile the guy who won everything last year with Bayern and has finally hit good form randomly gets benched for both matches and Milner suddenly becomes a starter against Kroos and Modric, when he can barely keep up with Brighton's midfield, surprisingly ends up chasing shadows in both games and offers nothing in the attacking third.

I'm actually mad

[greenmark]

Gotta say Madrid was up there for the taking, one of those rare occasions where Klopp makes a right meal of it start to finish, cowardly game management in both legs, especially in tonight's game when Madrid had so many lineup issues and you don't even go for it until it's too late in the game and until everyone is devoid of confidence.

Where do you even start, shocking team selection in both games, cocked it up with that surprise Keita inclusion and embarrassingly subbed him off at 41mins in the 1st leg, lost the tie right there already in the 1st half and shattered Keita's confidence in the process, could have waited 3 mins until HT at least. I guess he wanted to surprise them but backfired spectacularly, has to be record worst performance that Madrid has ever seen over there.

Second game you need goals but you bench your best attacker in insane form, and go with Firmino and Mane who completely lost confidence many months ago, when you know none of them can score if Salah has an off day, Klopp loyal to a fault.

Meanwhile the guy who won everything last year with Bayern and has finally hit good form randomly gets benched for both matches and Milner suddenly becomes a starter against Kroos and Modric, when he can barely keep up with Brighton's midfield, surprisingly ends up chasing shadows in both games and offers nothing in the attacking third.

I'm actually mad

Can't beat a good rant from a footy fan. TBH listening on radio it sounded like a team battering against a closed door, with the the risk of getting hit on the break. Basically a competent away European performance. That's all. LFC have personnel issues, but who doesn't?

[Kai]

Can't beat a good rant from a footy fan.

It's better than going to players' Instagram to spam monkey emojis

[Morbius]

Gotta say Madrid was up there for the taking, one of those rare occasions where Klopp makes a right meal of it start to finish, cowardly game management in both legs, especially in tonight's game when Madrid had so many lineup issues and you don't even go for it until it's too late in the game and until everyone is devoid of confidence.

Where do you even start, shocking team selection in both games, cocked it up with that surprise Keita inclusion and embarrassingly subbed him off at 41mins in the 1st leg, lost the tie right there already in the 1st half and shattered Keita's confidence in the process, could have waited 3 mins until HT at least. I guess he wanted to surprise them but backfired spectacularly, has to be record worst performance that Madrid has ever seen over there.

Second game you need goals but you bench your best attacker in insane form, and go with Firmino and Mane who completely lost confidence many months ago, when you know none of them can score if Salah has an off day, Klopp loyal to a fault.

Meanwhile the guy who won everything last year with Bayern and has finally hit good form randomly gets benched for both matches and Milner suddenly becomes a starter against Kroos and Modric, when he can barely keep up with Brighton's midfield, surprisingly ends up chasing shadows in both games and offers nothing in the attacking third.

I'm actually mad

IMO the entire season has been affected by the Van Dijk injury. This may sound overly simplistic but I think it pretty much boils down to it. The balance of a team is affected when its defensively fragile. because if you still attack in the same way then this is when wacky score lines happen like 4-3 and 7-2. Klopp understands the position they are in now. Last season in the league their goal difference was 85-33, this season its 53-37 with 7 games left. That simply reflects that they can no longer attack efficiently as a unit because they are no longer defending as one. I'm not saying this is the only issue they have because it isn't but its a delicate balancing act between scoring and defending as the level of opposition increases. Imagine the criticism if they had got beat 5-0 in the first leg?? Similar to what Pep did against Dortmund when he clearly recognised the threat Haaland posed and that this threat wasn't something they faced week in and week out in the premier league and even if you do go gung ho against Borussia, this is a vital tie with no second chances if you mess it up. In this instance the "threat" was Liverpools own defensive fragility.

I wasn't sure about Peps team selection but he called it right and somebody like that is always going to make a more informed decision than people on the outside because they are doing it with more data. I said before the game that if Liverpool won the CL this season that it would be a much greater achievement than the comeback win against Barce but I felt that the hurdle was too big this time but hey its a cup competition so they stood a chance. But you can quote team selection until the cows come home but in the first leg, couldn't defend a 50yd Toni Kroos long ball for the first goal, A Trent howler for the second and not closed down for the third and Vinicious scored from a position where Virgil would have been ditto for first goal. VVD to Liverpool is what Messi was to Barcelona, Ronaldo to Madrid, Keane to Man Utd etc, you just can't lose a player of that calibre for a full season and levels not drop.

[wearthefoxhat]

Gotta say Madrid was up there for the taking, one of those rare occasions where Klopp makes a right meal of it start to finish, cowardly game management in both legs, especially in tonight's game when Madrid had so many lineup issues and you don't even go for it until it's too late in the game and until everyone is devoid of confidence.

Where do you even start, shocking team selection in both games, cocked it up with that surprise Keita inclusion and embarrassingly subbed him off at 41mins in the 1st leg, lost the tie right there already in the 1st half and shattered Keita's confidence in the process, could have waited 3 mins until HT at least. I guess he wanted to surprise them but backfired spectacularly, has to be record worst performance that Madrid has ever seen over there.

Second game you need goals but you bench your best attacker in insane form, and go with Firmino and Mane who completely lost confidence many months ago, when you know none of them can score if Salah has an off day, Klopp loyal to a fault.

Meanwhile the guy who won everything last year with Bayern and has finally hit good form randomly gets benched for both matches and Milner suddenly becomes a starter against Kroos and Modric, when he can barely keep up with Brighton's midfield, surprisingly ends up chasing shadows in both games and offers nothing in the attacking third.

I'm actually mad

Also it's about timing when you play a team. On balance, Real Madrid are rated a better team, and would be expected to qualify.
Source; http://clubelo.com/

TopHalfPrem.png

TopHalfSpain.png

Already mentoned are the missing players...

Out.png

Get them fit for next season, and go again. (Maybe with just the europa league to focus on)

[Kai]

IMO the entire season has been affected by the Van Dijk injury.

But you can quote team selection until the cows come home but in the first leg, couldn't defend a 50yd Toni Kroos long ball for the first goal, A Trent howler for the second and not closed down for the third and Vinicious scored from a position where Virgil would have been ditto for first goal. VVD to Liverpool is what Messi was to Barcelona, Ronaldo to Madrid, Keane to Man Utd etc, you just can't lose a player of that calibre for a full season and levels not drop.

Can't a guy have an irrational rant right after a match?

To be fair I did already post a decent video summary on how Van Dijk's injury ripple effect destroyed the whole balance of the team earlier in the thread at the start of the year : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhv-RL7za3E

Still, no use crying about it and feeling sorry for yourself for the whole season, which the players have been doing when you look at all their interviews. Doesn't mean the whole season should just be scrapped and all the great work undone, managing the rest of your resources and the confidence levels of players to the best of your ability is what being a football manager is about.

Klopp would 100% agree with me there, he must have said that a hundred times by now. I'm his biggest fan on here, didn't see anyone else with his avatar picture, but that doesn't exempt him from criticism where it is due. In a way it's a compliment as well, because of the previously high standards that he set.

Klopp : "It's always my fault, the things that don't work are my fault, the things that do work are down to the players."

(we're all gonna need a Liverpool subforum at some point )

[Kai]

Klopp : "It's always my fault, the things that don't work are my fault, the things that do work are down to the players."

If you go a step deeper and filter out his humble nature and reluctance to take credit, what he means to say is that both good or bad on the pitch is directly his doing, he is responsible for both the criticism and the credit, as he's the manager, it's a no-brainer really.

Surely the only person that wouldn't agree with that line of thinking is Jose Mourinho, someone who loves throwing his players under his bus Which is why I didn't particularly like how he handled Keita in the first leg, subbing him off tactically before HT, making him look like the fall guy.

[Morbius]

Gotta say Madrid was up there for the taking, one of those rare occasions where Klopp makes a right meal of it start to finish, cowardly game management in both legs, especially in tonight's game when Madrid had so many lineup issues and you don't even go for it until it's too late in the game and until everyone is devoid of confidence.

Where do you even start, shocking team selection in both games, cocked it up with that surprise Keita inclusion and embarrassingly subbed him off at 41mins in the 1st leg, lost the tie right there already in the 1st half and shattered Keita's confidence in the process, could have waited 3 mins until HT at least. I guess he wanted to surprise them but backfired spectacularly, has to be record worst performance that Madrid has ever seen over there.

Second game you need goals but you bench your best attacker in insane form, and go with Firmino and Mane who completely lost confidence many months ago, when you know none of them can score if Salah has an off day, Klopp loyal to a fault.

Meanwhile the guy who won everything last year with Bayern and has finally hit good form randomly gets benched for both matches and Milner suddenly becomes a starter against Kroos and Modric, when he can barely keep up with Brighton's midfield, surprisingly ends up chasing shadows in both games and offers nothing in the attacking third.

I'm actually mad

Also it's about timing when you play a team. On balance, Real Madrid are rated a better team, and would be expected to qualify.
Source; http://clubelo.com/


TopHalfPrem.png


TopHalfSpain.png


Already mentoned are the missing players...


Out.png


Get them fit for next season, and go again. (Maybe with just the europa league to focus on)

+1

Yeah timing plays a big factor too especially in the CL. I remember Chelsea dumping United in the FA Cup some years ago after they turned their season around and were playing at Uniteds level for half the season but came a mile behind them in points. Ditto when Hiddink went to Chelsea and they really should have got to the CL final in 2009 and they looked formidable against anybody but he only got the job after someone got sacked, I think it was Avram Grant iirc. Short term variations in what is termed "form" often reveals underlying reasons which aren't always reflected in the averages. Another example I think of that is Atletico in La Liga who seem to be playing at a level below where they were several months ago and probably why Chelsea dumped them 3-0 on agg.

And City at 15/8 to win the CL last night was way too short before their second leg. They are 5/4 now which is stupidly too short as they are going into two coin flip ties. Getting back to timing, PSG have lost 8 games this season in Lique 1 and are 3pts behind Lille in a league they usually win at a canter. That suggests problems within the team but they were very strong against Bayern so you make your mind up which is the most indicative?? I believe the odds are being warped by PSG's league position but that is historical. Unlike Liverpool's which still reflects their current problems and City won't face Mbappe and Neymar every week so how they can be 5/4 to win a competition they have never won with a manager who only ever won it at Barcelona is a mystery. Even if City win it they can't be 5/4 before a semi

[Trader Pat]

The Van Dijk injury is obviously where things started to go wrong but Klopp hasn't reacted well to the injuries. I think half the blame for this season is down to bad luck but the other half is down to Klopp. What VVD and Gomez gave you at the back was speed so the team could push up knowing the CB's were quick enough to recover most situations, when they were both lost to injury Klopp insisted on playing the same way but with slower CB's who couldn't get back to cover which then had the knock on effect of the rest of the team lacking confidence in the defence. A criticism that was always made of Klopp even in his Dortmund days was he had no plan B, and watching this season unfold when things weren't going well you're hoping he'll do something different but he didn't. I'm not for a second saying #KLOPPOUT but even if we do get into the Top 4 next season is massive for him, a slow start and he could be gone by Christmas.

On a side not Man City look too short at 2.44, I fancy PSG to do a job on them.

[Morbius]

IMO the entire season has been affected by the Van Dijk injury.

But you can quote team selection until the cows come home but in the first leg, couldn't defend a 50yd Toni Kroos long ball for the first goal, A Trent howler for the second and not closed down for the third and Vinicious scored from a position where Virgil would have been ditto for first goal. VVD to Liverpool is what Messi was to Barcelona, Ronaldo to Madrid, Keane to Man Utd etc, you just can't lose a player of that calibre for a full season and levels not drop.

Can't a guy have an irrational rant right after a match?

To be fair I did already post a decent video summary on how Van Dijk's injury ripple effect destroyed the whole balance of the team earlier in the thread at the start of the year : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhv-RL7za3E

Still, no use crying about it and feeling sorry for yourself for the whole season, which the players have been doing when you look at all their interviews. Doesn't mean the whole season should just be scrapped and all the great work undone, managing the rest of your resources and the confidence levels of players to the best of your ability is what being a football manager is about.

Klopp would 100% agree with me there, he must have said that a hundred times by now. I'm his biggest fan on here, didn't see anyone else with his avatar picture, but that doesn't exempt him from criticism where it is due. In a way it's a compliment as well, because of the previously high standards that he set.

Klopp : "It's always my fault, the things that don't work are my fault, the things that do work are down to the players."

(we're all gonna need a Liverpool subforum at some point )

apologies for not being glued to the forum and seeing every thread Kai

An interesting sub-topic to this is the inefficiency of the football markets based on over/under reactions to current data. For example in the entire history of the English league, the record for most titles won on the trot is 3 and thats only been done 5 times. Huddersfield, Arsenal, Liverpool and twice under Ferguson. But yet the markets always overprice defending champions but its a full year between winning the league and defending it and that's a long time for things to go wrong. In fact "going wrong" is a misnomer, they merely have to fall from a previous high level and in a highly competitive league that's enough. Its pretty difficult to move on from 99/100 pts when the max is 114 but it amazes me how football fans never get how tough this league is and how one player can make a 30pt difference or more......side swipe at the Arsenal fans who wanted Wenger out and now they can't get near the top four. You don't just get a free pass into the top four in the PL unlike other European leagues and that gets reflected on teams winning their top divisions 5/6/7/8 on the run down the years. So any injury to a player like Virgil would have a magnified effect in the PL. Barce lose Messi and they still finish top 3 minimum, same with Ronaldo at Real and even more so with Mbappe/Neymar at PSG but to lose a player like VVD in the PL then you would have to be dominant to a level that I don't believe is possible in this league.