Psychoff - training course

[jimibt]

Well said James...

question is, was that well said james or jim

[Atho55]

Jim..

[xtrader16]

It really depends on what the return would be like after 12 months. I thought he struggled to string a sentence together when he done the video (obviously English wasnt his primary language) £24,000 is a lot of money but if after 2 months you are making £6k per month, 4 months and it is repaid. Not a bad investment at all.

I think Phychoff just hedges early on buy using >goals as a protection and then gambles with the green he has stored in the back ground. I dont think it is rocket science what he does.

[jimibt]

Well said James...

question is, was that well said james or jim

Jim..

phew -for a moment, i thought you were encouraging the debacle to continue... catch you again at some point !!

[Emmson]

phew -thank goodness everyone's had their say now!!

i still come to the BA forum thro habit, but imho, the quality input and brevity has gone (not just as witnessed on this thread, but in general).

shame, it shone for many a year, but

Place all those you deem beneath you on your ignore list!

[Trader Pat]

phew -thank goodness everyone's had their say now!!

Hold my beer!

i still come to the BA forum thro habit, but imho, the quality input and brevity has gone (not just as witnessed on this thread, but in general).

Yeah I agree with that. I haven't posted much lately because I'm making a conscious effort not to end up in circular arguments with idiots, trolls or zealots but not to worry Derek continues to fight the good fight in our name!


I think this thread is different though, its a good conversation.

My opinion on it is Psychoff is a proven trader so if somebody wants to pay that kind of money then so be it but I don't think he'll be giving his edge away. Probably just some general football trading advice based around late goals and trading what you see. I don't know his trading style but what marks him out for me is he's obviously very comfortable using relatively massive stakes and it doesn't matter who your mentor is if you're not comfortable doing the same then you'll never match his returns and it will end in a world of pain. My advice to anyone with 24k to spend on this is use 5k of that trading the football market on your own and see what your level of understanding is before shelling out 24 grand.

If I had 24 grand and was looking to use it for a trading mentorship I'd be saying sayonara to Betfair completely and using it to further my understanding of financial markets. At least that would be far more scalable than sports markets. I don't know Psychoff's trading style but it seems to be based primarily around goals markets and waiting for goals to be scored so they'll only ever be so scalable. Someone like Paulo Rebelo's approach seems more scalable as his style seems to be based more on scalping match and goals markets at very low prices for massive stakes.

Like I said though if I was someone looking to spend that kind of dough on a trading course I'd save it for the financial markets and find someone with a proven track record of trading/investing and proven as a teacher/mentor.

[ODPaul82]

while you guys are ping ponging around, thought i'd ask for an alternative opinion on something that is somewhat related.

there's a service out there called IPT which offers a visually compelling view of the stats as they occur in real-time. is there any concensus out there as to how viable it is using this approach. they seem to have developed a few algos around what they call pressure indexes, so wondered if a similar appraoch could be used to identify and exploit edges in a similar fashion to what psychoff is observing while watching the markets games live.

I've used IPT since its inception and was one of the beta testers.
There's not much to the calculation of the indicators, PI1 & PI2. Higher the number the more pressure there is (i.e. multiple shots on/off) during a timeframe so theoretically the higher the number the more likelihood of a goal(s).

There's a chatroom with knowledgeable people in it and numerous beginners, I tend not to go in there too much these days as it's just a distraction for me.

Most of the people are looking for overs and there are a number of strategies (off the top of my head 9) that get implemented but everyone is only ever horny for two of them (goalwatch and HTO [which is Half Time Overs, not Horny Transvestite Goats despite my plea's to call it that])

I personally use the PI as an indicator to get out of a game as I do unders swings and nothing else these days in footie.

[Edit] I forgot to mention you also get what they call DI% (Draw Inflation) for a couple of games which comes from a sister pre-match trading website. The DI% is based on a bivariate distribution, the paper where someone applied it to football games is available on the tinterweb somewhere

[Derek27]

I dont have an issue with Psychoff but as for a fan I dont recall ever meeting or talking with him. I'm simply pointing out the basics of supply and demand & if there was any value in it for others who could compete, they would. The fact that they haven't suggests it either not worth their time or the knowledge they hold is worth more than you estimate.

Okay. I`m offering one to one tuition to anyone who wants it for £10K an hour. Who's going to compete with me?

By your own admission, if there's any value for others to compete they would. Looks like I've got a monopoly at this level, nobody else commands that sort of fee.

[Archangel]

In fairness to Psychoff, hes going to try to make as much as possible as he can from his skills. And clearly, given his profits, his time has a certain value. I dont know anyone else of his level who is offering a chance to watch them trade live, thats worth a lot more than a prerecorded session or an ebook.

Is it going to make these attendees profitable, probably not. He could sit 100 people down one to one and show them exactly what he does and when etc. Maybe 5 of those people will be able to apply it in the real world, and maybe one will be successful, if that. This is becasue trading is a psychological game and (I dont believe), that can be taught.

[sniffer66]

while you guys are ping ponging around, thought i'd ask for an alternative opinion on something that is somewhat related.

there's a service out there called IPT which offers a visually compelling view of the stats as they occur in real-time. is there any concensus out there as to how viable it is using this approach. they seem to have developed a few algos around what they call pressure indexes, so wondered if a similar appraoch could be used to identify and exploit edges in a similar fashion to what psychoff is observing while watching the markets games live.

I've used IPT since its inception and was one of the beta testers.
There's not much to the calculation of the indicators, PI1 & PI2. Higher the number the more pressure there is (i.e. multiple shots on/off) during a timeframe so theoretically the higher the number the more likelihood of a goal(s).

There's a chatroom with knowledgeable people in it and numerous beginners, I tend not to go in there too much these days as it's just a distraction for me.

Most of the people are looking for overs and there are a number of strategies (off the top of my head 9) that get implemented but everyone is only ever horny for two of them (goalwatch and HTO [which is Half Time Overs, not Horny Transvestite Goats despite my plea's to call it that])

I personally use the PI as an indicator to get out of a game as I do unders swings and nothing else these days in footie.

[Edit] I forgot to mention you also get what they call DI% (Draw Inflation) for a couple of games which comes from a sister pre-match trading website. The DI% is based on a bivariate distribution, the paper where someone applied it to football games is available on the tinterweb somewhere

I do variations of Goalwatch and HTO, using PI stats (amongst others). Automated and using my own pre match and then IPT in-play. Works well for me

[ODPaul82]

I do variations of Goalwatch and HTO, using PI stats (amongst others). Automated and using my own pre match and then IPT in-play. Works well for me

Clint was my mainstay for over 10 years which GW is pretty much based on. I'm pretty much full-on with the tennis and better returns with the unders that it was one less thing for me to try and be multi-tasking with

[jamesg46]

I dont have an issue with Psychoff but as for a fan I dont recall ever meeting or talking with him. I'm simply pointing out the basics of supply and demand & if there was any value in it for others who could compete, they would. The fact that they haven't suggests it either not worth their time or the knowledge they hold is worth more than you estimate.

Okay. I`m offering one to one tuition to anyone who wants it for £10K an hour. Who's going to compete with me?

By your own admission, if there's any value for others to compete they would. Looks like I've got a monopoly at this level, nobody else commands that sort of fee.

You've only got a monopoly if there is demand... but I know you understand supply & demand. Then again some traders didn't know if price action was transferable from financial to sports markets oh and that one who asked why not just use ema, without ever taking a second to realise that a moving average is a.lagging indicator of previous price action, so at this point it wouldn't suprise me if supply and demand wasn't something in your researched locker.

Like I've said, if the price is too high iyo then there is a valuable gap in that market place where you can offer a service. If you can't & you're unable to compete with him then leave the arena... don't walk around screaming rip off if you aren't or can't provide an alternative (with similar credentials)for people to either go to or compare against.

[Derek27]

I dont have an issue with Psychoff but as for a fan I dont recall ever meeting or talking with him. I'm simply pointing out the basics of supply and demand & if there was any value in it for others who could compete, they would. The fact that they haven't suggests it either not worth their time or the knowledge they hold is worth more than you estimate.

Okay. I`m offering one to one tuition to anyone who wants it for £10K an hour. Who's going to compete with me?

By your own admission, if there's any value for others to compete they would. Looks like I've got a monopoly at this level, nobody else commands that sort of fee.

You've only got a monopoly if there is demand... but I know you understand supply & demand. Then again some traders didn't know if price action was transferable from financial to sports markets oh and that one who asked why not just use ema, without ever taking a second to realise that a moving average is a.lagging indicator of previous price action, so at this point it wouldn't suprise me if supply and demand wasn't something in your researched locker.

Like I've said, if the price is too high iyo then there is a valuable gap in that market place where you can offer a service. If you can't & you're unable to compete with him then leave the arena... don't walk around screaming rip off if you aren't or can't provide an alternative (with similar credentials)for people to either go to or compare against.

Is there a demand for Phychoff's tuition? Are people falling over themselves to pay £24,000? I trust you know the answer because you said...

Here is how I know that the price is value.

Supply & demand.

[jamesg46]

Okay. I`m offering one to one tuition to anyone who wants it for £10K an hour. Who's going to compete with me?

By your own admission, if there's any value for others to compete they would. Looks like I've got a monopoly at this level, nobody else commands that sort of fee.

You've only got a monopoly if there is demand... but I know you understand supply & demand. Then again some traders didn't know if price action was transferable from financial to sports markets oh and that one who asked why not just use ema, without ever taking a second to realise that a moving average is a.lagging indicator of previous price action, so at this point it wouldn't suprise me if supply and demand wasn't something in your researched locker.

Like I've said, if the price is too high iyo then there is a valuable gap in that market place where you can offer a service. If you can't & you're unable to compete with him then leave the arena... don't walk around screaming rip off if you aren't or can't provide an alternative (with similar credentials)for people to either go to or compare against.

Is there a demand for Phychoff's tuition? Are people falling over themselves to pay £24,000? I trust you know the answer because you said...

Here is how I know that the price is value.

Supply & demand.

Check out the testimonials on his website for yourself, there seems to have been previous demand... as for his current order book I have no idea and nor do I care because I'm not the one being a melt over his business.

[Derek27]

Here is how I know that the price is value.

Supply & demand.

Check out the testimonials on his website for yourself, there seems to have been previous demand... as for his current order book I have no idea and nor do I care because I'm not the one being a melt over his business.

Clearly you don't know yourself, which contradicts your supply and demand argument. I've looked at the testimonials. There's no feedback from anyone who's done the £24K course. Interestingly, there is a trader who was full-time for two years before he did the basic course.