Euro 2020

Football, Soccer - whatever you call it. It is the beautiful game.
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arbitrage16
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:27 pm

greenmark wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:18 pm
It was a very even game for me. Sure we appeared to sit back, but anyone thats played sport knows a worthy opponent will redouble their efforts when losing.
Rash's pen was a ball's width from being perfect. And who could possibly criticise a 19yr old having the guts to step up to the plate.
It was SO narrow a victory. Italy are unbeaten in 34 - since Sep 2018. That says it all.
Absolutely. So many after timers in this thread who would have been singing the praises of players/manager alike if Rashford's penalty had gone in. Fine margins.

It's been 50+ years since England won a trophy. They were always going to need to go close, to have that experience, before they win something. That's the players, but it's also the manager - Southgate is inexperienced in management, but he has the capacity to improve and become a winner, because he has shown progress at every stage.

No shame in losing to a quality side like Italy, in such close fashion, when they are tried and tested and have winners throughout their setup.
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

arbitrage16 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:37 pm
greenmark wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:18 pm
It was a very even game for me. Sure we appeared to sit back, but anyone thats played sport knows a worthy opponent will redouble their efforts when losing.
Rash's pen was a ball's width from being perfect. And who could possibly criticise a 19yr old having the guts to step up to the plate.
It was SO narrow a victory. Italy are unbeaten in 34 - since Sep 2018. That says it all.
Absolutely. So many after timers in this thread who would have been singing the praises of players/manager alike if Rashford's penalty had gone in. Fine margins.
That's how sports work isn't it? You praise the winners and critique the losers :?

My criticism of Southgate goes way back to when he first got the job.

First question to ask when a team loses is could they have done anything differently? The answer in this case is definitely yes. Italy didn't click into gear after going a goal down, they were there for the taking for most of the first half but England didn't drive home their advantage. You can understand that because Southgate is a conservative coach but he must have known Mancini would change things at half time. However he didn't adapt to Mancini's changes and the second half was a completely different game with Italy on top. Southgate seemed content to just try and hang on for a 1-0 win, maybe his plan was to bring on Rashford or Grealish with 15 minutes to go but Bonucci's goal changed all that. Harry Kane didn't have a shot on target in 2 hours of football because he had no service and had to keep coming deep for the ball, that's Southgate's fault. He brings on two penalty takers in injury time at the end of extra time, surely give them a bit more time to settle in? I'd put that on Southgate too. There's a few things he could have done differently and it could be put down to after timing but some of this was brought up in commentary in real time so it was there for all to see.

You're right though in saying he'd have been praised if they'd have won the shootout, of course he would have. If that would have happened then Mancini would have been under the microscope, that just how it works. On balance though Southgate made more questionable decisions than Mancini did.
arbitrage16
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:27 pm

Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:16 pm
arbitrage16 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:37 pm
greenmark wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:18 pm
It was a very even game for me. Sure we appeared to sit back, but anyone thats played sport knows a worthy opponent will redouble their efforts when losing.
Rash's pen was a ball's width from being perfect. And who could possibly criticise a 19yr old having the guts to step up to the plate.
It was SO narrow a victory. Italy are unbeaten in 34 - since Sep 2018. That says it all.
Absolutely. So many after timers in this thread who would have been singing the praises of players/manager alike if Rashford's penalty had gone in. Fine margins.
That's how sports work isn't it? You praise the winners and critique the losers :?
No not really, it's how critics work :)

I also think not enough focus is given to how incredibly hard it is to be successful, at anything. There are a lot of people on this forum, myself included, who struggle not to click a mouse button, or to click it less, whilst Southgate et al are stringing wins together in tournament football during a pandemic and coming within 6 inches of winning the whole thing. It's impressive stuff, especially when you consider where England came from....

awful football, no spirit, divided camp, clamming up in big games, the list goes on. Where is that now? Whatever Southgate has done, and obviously he made tactical errors - that would of course be punished against the most tactically proficient operation in world football - he has eradicated, for now, decades of issues. Of course some remain, but the progress has been incredible.

England are unrecognisable from 8 years ago, and Southgate and his team rightly take credit for that. This is a very young side, and the notion that such a result will cripple them is nonsense - it will drive them to improve on a great performance.
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

arbitrage16 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:27 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:16 pm
arbitrage16 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:37 pm


Absolutely. So many after timers in this thread who would have been singing the praises of players/manager alike if Rashford's penalty had gone in. Fine margins.
That's how sports work isn't it? You praise the winners and critique the losers :?
No not really, it's how critics work :)

I also think not enough focus is given to how incredibly hard it is to be successful, at anything. There are a lot of people on this forum, myself included, who struggle not to click a mouse button, or to click it less, whilst Southgate et al are stringing wins together in tournament football during a pandemic and coming within 6 inches of winning the whole thing. It's impressive stuff, especially when you consider where England came from....

awful football, no spirit, divided camp, clamming up in big games, the list goes on. Where is that now? Whatever Southgate has done, and obviously he made tactical errors - that would of course be punished against the most tactically proficient operation in world football - he has eradicated, for now, decades of issues. Of course some remain, but the progress has been incredible.

England are unrecognisable from 8 years ago, and Southgate and his team rightly take credit for that. This is a very young side, and the notion that such a result will cripple them is nonsense - it will drive them to improve on a great performance.
100% agree with most of that but you can still praise England and Southgate for what he got right and at the same time highlight what he got wrong
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

Not sure I'd compound the error by telling the world about it :)

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/s ... ers-tattoo
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Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

At least football hooliganism's come home. :lol:
greenmark
Posts: 4948
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:24 pm
arbitrage16 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:27 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:16 pm


That's how sports work isn't it? You praise the winners and critique the losers :?
No not really, it's how critics work :)

I also think not enough focus is given to how incredibly hard it is to be successful, at anything. There are a lot of people on this forum, myself included, who struggle not to click a mouse button, or to click it less, whilst Southgate et al are stringing wins together in tournament football during a pandemic and coming within 6 inches of winning the whole thing. It's impressive stuff, especially when you consider where England came from....

awful football, no spirit, divided camp, clamming up in big games, the list goes on. Where is that now? Whatever Southgate has done, and obviously he made tactical errors - that would of course be punished against the most tactically proficient operation in world football - he has eradicated, for now, decades of issues. Of course some remain, but the progress has been incredible.

England are unrecognisable from 8 years ago, and Southgate and his team rightly take credit for that. This is a very young side, and the notion that such a result will cripple them is nonsense - it will drive them to improve on a great performance.
100% agree with most of that but you can still praise England and Southgate for what he got right and at the same time highlight what he got wrong
It will be Gareth's greatest test. Learn from Euro 2020. Personally, I'll back him up to the first overly defensive next performance. I think the mood is now that we have some fire power. Go use it!
nivi7
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:53 pm

nivi7 wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:11 pm
Kai wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:08 pm
nivi7 wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:04 pm
backing Italy to win
Wait until England gets backed into evens, you'll get a much better price!

odds re 8.0
win and btts
cant get better than that

lost but it was good bet
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jimibt
Posts: 3641
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Location: Narnia

footballs coming?? :D

aaa-its-coming-rome.jpg
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Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Police chief says the final would have been abandoned had it not been for the police crowd control. Surely that would have been a better result!
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