How are traders using TPD Data.

Integrate live racecourse data into your favourite Betfair trading interface from TPD.
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xtrader16
Posts: 411
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:00 pm

Hello,

I signed up to TPD Data over the weekend and I was wondering how people are using the Data to create trades in BA. I must point out I am not asking for specific strategies just general information.

I've looked through the forum and I don't see much information in regards to VP VF VE CE and how these are implemented into trading. I'm not exactly sure how many people are even using TPD data to trade with, very few it looks like.

So, Question One. Can TPD Data for VP VF VE CE be exported to excel via BA and are these metrics reliable enough to use.

Are traders mainly using speed (m.p.h) in the last 10% of the race to create automated trades. Whilst I am hopeful that this data can be used in a positive way i am not seeing many ways it can be used for actual trades. Hopefully you can shed some light on it. Are there any groups where people are working along side each other using TPD. I seen they have subscriptions that suggest 3 people can be on the same account lowering the price and giving maximum access to the software. Any help would be appreciated.
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ShaunWhite
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

I don't know the figures but it's not just BA users who have access to TPD. I'd put the user numbers in the hundreds. As for how to use it then that's down to your imagination, the obvious one is speed and distance remaining, but changes of speed or speeds relative to each other would be useful too. As would looking a speed changes approaching or exiting from fences. But as always, the objective is to obtain value so I'd use the TPD data to develop a pricing model and then aim for prices that deviated from my model. Simply backing the likely winner won't return a profit unless you're getting a value price.

I'm sure Dallas has published some examples to get you started.
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xtrader16
Posts: 411
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:00 pm

Thanks for the reply Shaun,

I have updated BA to v1.59 so I have access to the new profiles. Is there a option in v1.59 when I can activate trades upon the changes in CE or VP ?

Example: If CE increases 50% within the first 50% of the race, A lay bet is activated with a 100% offset to green.

I can't see any options where that might fit into BA. I'm sure it could be done though I'm not sure how quick or effective it will be.

Not entirely convinced that using split times is the way to go either. The difference is at times minute is that really the way to go. Remain to be convinced. Not really reliable info towards the end of the race, Id assume.
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Euler
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

I used TPD to model different race lengths at different courses. It was really interesting and changed my perception of what I needed to do in play and why.

I think people are using too simplistic approaches to the data. It's very valuable.
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xtrader16
Posts: 411
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:00 pm

Hi Euler,

I am new to TPD Data (this weekend) it will take time to find out how the data can be used. It looks to me, at first sight, that it is more suited to flat racing which isn't ideal for this time of year.

There pace maps are really poor. I thought it might be a good idea to sell them access to the Overview charts in Guardian where we can just monitor the first 3 -5 in the market and drop the others as it might give a clearer picture of the overall pace. Maybe this is something they can upgrade at some point. - I think there pace charts would benefit from having only the first 3 horses in the race visible. Just looks like a load of squiggly mess.

If there is anybody out there who would like to work in partnership to create TPD data trades give me a shout, maybe set up a group within the forum on how best to use the Data if I cant find a use for it, it no use to me.
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Dallas
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Location: Working From Home

There's loads of ready-made TPD files for your one-click, ladder and in-play trader screens, plus automations file

A few of the topics like this one also explain what each of data sets mean
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=25314
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xtrader16
Posts: 411
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:00 pm

Euler wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:35 pm
I used TPD to model different race lengths at different courses. It was really interesting and changed my perception of what I needed to do in play and why.

I think people are using too simplistic approaches to the data. It's very valuable.
I'm not entirely sure of what this means and how the data would be applied to a race. I would assume you are talking about straight tracks against bendy tracks with short or long run-ins and how the splits relate. "It's very valuable" - that's got me interested. Am I on the right track, no pun intended.
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xtrader16
Posts: 411
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How can TPD data be exported to excel?
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ShaunWhite
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

xtrader16 wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:19 pm
How can TPD data be exported to excel?
I'm not 100% as I don't use BA much, but I know you can export stored values, and I think the release notes for the TPD version said you can put TPD data in stored values. So that might be one way?
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Dallas
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:16 pm
xtrader16 wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:19 pm
How can TPD data be exported to excel?
I'm not 100% as I don't use BA much, but I know you can export stored values, and I think the release notes for the TPD version said you can put TPD data in stored values. So that might be one way?
Thats correct, then you just select the SV names you want to push through to Excel in your main Excel settings area
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decomez6
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Euler wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:35 pm

I think people are using too simplistic approaches to the data. It's very valuable.
i think TPD is meant to make the whole process as simple as A, B , C....

A...favourite horse travelling at a consistent best speed for the race and conditions.

B...2nd fave showing no signs of improvement.

C...the remaining distance relative to the finishing line V/S the speed of the leading horse , suggests a high probability of WIN .


what could go wrong ?
how often ?
risk to reward?

do prices follow traded volumes ?
do prices follow actual horse performance or do they only reflect the conviction displayed by traders and punters ?

is the discrepancy resulting from the above questions measurable ?

if SO , does BF Algos takes TPD into considerations ?.... Xmatching and the resulting price corrections .


Many , many questions , but i think the simplest of all is ? .. how does one know if a horse is being held back for the sake of jokey /Trainer strategy ? :lol:
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ShaunWhite
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decomez6 wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:05 am
how does one know if a horse is being held back for the sake of jokey /Trainer strategy ? :lol:
Some are, that's why your edge needs to be big enough to cater for them. Trading isn't about being right about a race its about being slightly right over thousands of races.
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decomez6
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Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:26 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:09 pm
Trading isn't about being right about a race its about being slightly right over thousands of races.
I think ‘s a bit of both .
All comes down to level of confidence you have on a set up . Stake accordingly and I guess you wouldn’t have to wait for that long to stay profitable.
But of course, confidence needs naturing and maturing…. After all trading randomly without commission,should’ve a zero sum outcome .
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Euler
Posts: 24701
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

I recorded a ton of races next to the TPD data to tease out characteristics of why each horse won, why and where it was obvious.

That felt a really sensible way to approach the problem.

I can read a race visually, but I've never been able to put numbers on it. TPD solved that problem for me.
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

decomez6 wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:35 pm
I think ‘s a bit of both .

I just mean that a few held up or pushed on horses don't matter.
decomez6 wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:35 pm
After all trading randomly without commission,should’ve a zero sum outcome .
That's true of the mid price but taking prices isn't, and offering depends on being filled. I think a lot of people struggle to gross zero.
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