Tiger Woods

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Crazyskier
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Derek27 wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:38 pm
Crazyskier wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:18 pm
What a load of bollocks! The West may have become multi-cultural in recent decades, for better or worse, but it is still working upon Christian laws, values and holidays, even if those actually attending church is in decline.
Infidelity is not against the law so you can't say the west is working upon Christian laws.
The Laws I referred to are the UK common laws that govern wider society. Thou shalt not kill, etc are from the 10 commandments, given to Moses on Mount Sinai.

As regards 'thou shalt not commit adultery' there are many countries in which this IS still actually illegal as well as sinful, just like sodomy / buggery. And rightly so, in my view.

CS
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Derek27
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Crazyskier wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:51 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:38 pm
Crazyskier wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:18 pm
What a load of bollocks! The West may have become multi-cultural in recent decades, for better or worse, but it is still working upon Christian laws, values and holidays, even if those actually attending church is in decline.
Infidelity is not against the law so you can't say the west is working upon Christian laws.
The Laws I referred to are the UK common laws that govern wider society. Thou shalt not kill, etc are from the 10 commandments, given to Moses on Mount Sinai.

As regards 'thou shalt not commit adultery' there are many countries in which this IS still actually illegal as well as sinful, just like sodomy / buggery. And rightly so, in my view.

CS
CS, I hereby publically and in the presence of all Bet Angel forum members instruct you not to kill, steal or commit adultery. Therefore you are now obeying my instructions and not your Christian teachings. :lol:

In all seriousness, do you really think it took someone clever to figure out that you shouldn't kill? :lol:
Trader Pat
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Crazyskier wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:51 pm

The Laws I referred to are the UK common laws that govern wider society. Thou shalt not kill, etc are from the 10 commandments, given to Moses on Mount Sinai.

As regards 'thou shalt not commit adultery' there are many countries in which this IS still actually illegal as well as sinful, just like sodomy / buggery. And rightly so, in my view.

CS

Gay sex doesn't rock my boat and neither do Man Utd but I don't think either of them should be banned just because I'm not into them.

As for religion I'm going out on a limb here but I'm pretty sure its caused more ills in the world than gay people
sniffer66
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Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:21 pm
Crazyskier wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:51 pm

The Laws I referred to are the UK common laws that govern wider society. Thou shalt not kill, etc are from the 10 commandments, given to Moses on Mount Sinai.

As regards 'thou shalt not commit adultery' there are many countries in which this IS still actually illegal as well as sinful, just like sodomy / buggery. And rightly so, in my view.

CS

Gay sex doesn't rock my boat and neither do Man Utd but I don't think either of them should be banned just because I'm not into them.

As for religion I'm going out on a limb here but I'm pretty sure its caused more ills in the world than gay people
People have caused the ill, often in the name of religion, often not. Sexuality is irrelevant - except to those who have an issue with what others do in the privacy of their own bedroom\dining table\play room\bathroom (*delete as appropriate)
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Euler
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Thought I'd check is something had happened to Tiger. Seems not! :lol:
greenmark
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Tiger Woods car crash: 10 questions on injuries, recovery and return of former world number one

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/56199889

I imagine if Tiger walks out onto the 1st tee of any tournament in the future, he''ll get a storming ovation.
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ShaunWhite
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greenmark wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:21 pm
I imagine if Tiger walks out onto the 1st tee of any tournament in the future, he''ll get a storming ovation.
...followed by stoney silence as they watch him hobble round in 105, neck a few more meds and stuff his car into the champagne tent.
Anbell
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Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:21 pm
Crazyskier wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:51 pm

The Laws I referred to are the UK common laws that govern wider society. Thou shalt not kill, etc are from the 10 commandments, given to Moses on Mount Sinai.

As regards 'thou shalt not commit adultery' there are many countries in which this IS still actually illegal as well as sinful, just like sodomy / buggery. And rightly so, in my view.

CS

Gay sex doesn't rock my boat and neither do Man Utd but I don't think either of them should be banned just because I'm not into them.
How about straight buggery?
Trader Pat
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Anbell wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:44 am
Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:21 pm
Crazyskier wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:51 pm

The Laws I referred to are the UK common laws that govern wider society. Thou shalt not kill, etc are from the 10 commandments, given to Moses on Mount Sinai.

As regards 'thou shalt not commit adultery' there are many countries in which this IS still actually illegal as well as sinful, just like sodomy / buggery. And rightly so, in my view.

CS

Gay sex doesn't rock my boat and neither do Man Utd but I don't think either of them should be banned just because I'm not into them.
How about straight buggery?

Hell of a question to start off the day! :o :lol:
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Derek27
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:lol:
sionascaig
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Crazyskier wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:18 pm

Adultery is just as sinful today as it ever was. It's an absolute betrayal of one's spouse, and always will be. To even suggest otherwise is to indulge in self-deception of the worst kind.

CS
In European nations, marriage was traditionally considered a civil institution. ... Christians began to have their marriages conducted by ministers in Christian gatherings, but it was in the 12th century that the Roman Catholic Church formally defined marriage as a sacrament, sanctioned by God

==> so in the context of "christian" values really nothing to do with the church until they decided to take control of marriage and make it a sin to have sexual relations outside wedlock... This is about power & control & nothing to do with "values" no matter how they market it.

Betrayal of your spouse is betrayal - there is absolutely no reason to bring "christianity" into it...
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jimibt
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sionascaig wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:02 pm
Crazyskier wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:18 pm

Adultery is just as sinful today as it ever was. It's an absolute betrayal of one's spouse, and always will be. To even suggest otherwise is to indulge in self-deception of the worst kind.

CS
In European nations, marriage was traditionally considered a civil institution. ... Christians began to have their marriages conducted by ministers in Christian gatherings, but it was in the 12th century that the Roman Catholic Church formally defined marriage as a sacrament, sanctioned by God

==> so in the context of "christian" values really nothing to do with the church until they decided to take control of marriage and make it a sin to have sexual relations outside wedlock... This is about power & control & nothing to do with "values" no matter how they market it.

Betrayal of your spouse is betrayal - there is absolutely no reason to bring "christianity" into it...
+1 - perfectly summed up
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Morbius
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greenmark wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:49 pm
Morbius wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:54 pm
superfrank wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:49 pm

In Jack Nicklaus' day people and society generally had higher standards.

In today's post-Christian western world anything goes and the results shouldn't come as a surprise.

It's unfair to judge Tiger by the moral standards of another era. I don't think anything he did is particularly shocking today.


I wasn't judging him by the moral standards of another era and its equally unfair to let him off the hook even slightly simply because people in previous generations had as you rightly say higher standards generally. Let me give a different if not better example then. He comes a long way short of the moral values practiced by many sportsman within his own profession in the modern world let alone in all other sports. There are tens of millions of men all over the world who are good husbands and fathers and role models despite society differences. I think we can all very much agree on that.

The phrase "particularly shocking" is vague because what one person defines as shocking, another doesn't. But as I said, if you were the father of his ex then would you dismiss his numerous infidelities and drug taking when your daughters and grandaughters health and life are at risk from this man and that's before he even gets behind the wheel. Heaven knows what else his exes could divulge if they dared to speak or could even speak legally.

Do I respect him for his achievements? How could you not respect his tenacity to get to be the best. To attack his own weaknesses so that he had none and dominate a highly competitive sport and winning the 2008 US Open with an injury. His golf CV is immense and cannot be argued against. But as a human, he has the CV of scum until he proves otherwise. His lifestyle is a health hazard to anyone who gets close to him. Chronic infidelity coupled with drug taking leads down some very dark and serious roads and no father worth his salt would ever want that for his own daughter. This is before we even go down the road of saying how much responsibility this man carries as a role model to young kids who would want to emulate him and look up to him and he has failed just as miserably in that as he has succeeded in golf
TBH I think you should cut Tiger (and people like him) some slack. You aren't insulated from issues like infidelity or substance abuse., just because you're rich and famous. Infidelity-wise, come on! He's had women throwing themselves at him for decades. Yes, it is IMO reprehensible to cheat on your life partner. But its hardly unusual. Substance abuse? Well, yes that indicates a deeper problem. Knowing someone in the alcohol counselling arena informs me that the issue is far from simple. Generally, there are other factors other than just being a slob or having a lack of willpower. The addiction is just a symptom/outlet for other deep-seated emotional issues. And being rich/famous is no antidote to that.


Like I said in a previous post if you read it, we are all human and prone to going off the rails and hell knows I've done it more than once. Anybody who hasn't has probably lived in a bubble. But just to generalise it as "infidelity" and saying its common doesn't even come close to what he's done. Obviously he's rich and famous so will be faced with temptations that other men wouldn't but you don't need to be rich and famous to pay for countless hookers do you? Because when it comes to prostitutes, its the bloke who is doing the looking and the booking. Information is viral as we all know and people like him cannot keep shit from leaking out even if you do pay hookers to keep quiet. Like I said, anybody can go off the beaten track but it's the frequency of it that matters. Like I also said, I used to work for an insurance company, people are allowed to have car accidents as mistakes are human and other drivers can contribute to your accident but when there's an accident on a regular basis then any insurance company will refuse the risk......same principle. FFS stop rationalising his behavior and use the principle of Occam's Razor. If he can't keep it in his pants and can't stop taking drugs or driving in a way that endangers life then he can't be a role model for anybody can he hence why many huge companies have dropped him and rightly so. There is a world of difference between expecting someone to be perfect which nobody is and him doing what he has.
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Crazyskier
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sionascaig wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:02 pm
Crazyskier wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:18 pm

Adultery is just as sinful today as it ever was. It's an absolute betrayal of one's spouse, and always will be. To even suggest otherwise is to indulge in self-deception of the worst kind.

CS
In European nations, marriage was traditionally considered a civil institution. ... Christians began to have their marriages conducted by ministers in Christian gatherings, but it was in the 12th century that the Roman Catholic Church formally defined marriage as a sacrament, sanctioned by God

==> so in the context of "christian" values really nothing to do with the church until they decided to take control of marriage and make it a sin to have sexual relations outside wedlock... This is about power & control & nothing to do with "values" no matter how they market it.

Betrayal of your spouse is betrayal - there is absolutely no reason to bring "christianity" into it...
Actually this is a fair point, assuming 'civil' ceremonies have the same VOWS as Church weddings. I concur that betrayal of anyone in an exclusive relationship is indeed a betrayal, but it seems somehow more of a betrayal when that person happens to be your wife that you have VOWED IN FRONT OF GOD AND MEN to cherish and 'forsake all others'.

As Tiger was married at Sandy Lane in Barbados, I have no idea what vows he took or what part (if any) the Church played in the ceremony, but my point remains about the 'HOLY Matrimony' being a stronger - indeed, the strongest - commitment, ergo any betrayal being even worse for those married in the eyes of God. And what made Tiger's betrayal particularly galling was that Sam was 2 and Charlie had literally just been born a matter of days before!

CS
Trader Pat
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Crazyskier wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:06 pm
sionascaig wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:02 pm
Crazyskier wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:18 pm

Adultery is just as sinful today as it ever was. It's an absolute betrayal of one's spouse, and always will be. To even suggest otherwise is to indulge in self-deception of the worst kind.

CS
In European nations, marriage was traditionally considered a civil institution. ... Christians began to have their marriages conducted by ministers in Christian gatherings, but it was in the 12th century that the Roman Catholic Church formally defined marriage as a sacrament, sanctioned by God

==> so in the context of "christian" values really nothing to do with the church until they decided to take control of marriage and make it a sin to have sexual relations outside wedlock... This is about power & control & nothing to do with "values" no matter how they market it.

Betrayal of your spouse is betrayal - there is absolutely no reason to bring "christianity" into it...
Actually this is a fair point, assuming 'civil' ceremonies have the same VOWS as Church weddings. I concur that betrayal of anyone in an exclusive relationship is indeed a betrayal, but it seems somehow more of a betrayal when that person happens to be your wife that you have VOWED IN FRONT OF GOD AND MEN to cherish and 'forsake all others'.

As Tiger was married at Sandy Lane in Barbados, I have no idea what vows he took or what part (if any) the Church played in the ceremony, but my point remains about the 'HOLY Matrimony' being a stronger - indeed, the strongest - commitment, ergo any betrayal being even worse for those married in the eyes of God. And what made Tiger's betrayal particularly galling was that Sam was 2 and Charlie had literally just been born a matter of days before!

CS

Are you a good Christian CS?
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