Whatever you wanna call it.
I'm from Spain and I know there are many people like me, not based in the UK, that have difficulties in having good horse racing pictures. That's why I have opened this thread, to try and know why, the options, and how the situation is like in the UK. I hope we can come up with a nice solution or at least digg into the problem.
As many of you know, here we have a lag of 5-10 seconds compared to the live event. You can imagine the downside... So I ask for whoever that can help in anything:
1. What are the options in the UK? Do they lag also or are completely live feed?
2. I think if not on the UK we only have the options of AtTheRaces and RacingUK streams. With the adverts, number of races, and lag... ATR is hardly valuable. I don't know about RacingUK, but I think the lag part is the same. Does anybody know other overseas options?
3. Does anybody know the reason behind the lag?
4. As far as I know most people in the UK also don't have completely live pictures as I've read a lot about how not many people have "fast pictures" and they benefit from it. Why is that even there you don't get the live signal?
Thank you all, hope we achieve something with this, even if it's just some reasons for this.
Cheers!
UK and overseas pictures/feed/stream/video
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
There will always be some form of delay and it really is a matter of how small or large that delay will be.
The only true live feed is the closed loop feed at the relevant course. If you visit some courses they have the feed fed directly to the screens but if the broadcaster does not have a presence at the track then it needs to be sent to a production centre somewhere for them to add commentary etc. That will create a delay and the more times the signal is bounced the greater the delay there will be.
I used to work in RF many years ago before satellite TV was generally available in the UK. The general way to cover a "live" event is to have cameras at the course and some form of mobile production unit - this is usually undertaken by RaceTech for a lot of UK racing ( I am not 100% about the role of this company in relationship to SiS and TurfTV). The pictures are processed and produced and then up linked to a satellite. The signal is then beamed down to a TV provider e.g. BSkyB in the UK and then it is distributed to the viewing public. They will add encryption if necessary. This all creates a delay.
Another delay is created by the bandwidth available to send the pictures. They cannot send the straight video, it needs to be compressed and then sent. If you use a cable provider then an extra delay will be added as that company takes the pictures and distributes them over their fibre optic network.
The fastest pictures are terrestrial in the UK provided they are the old analogue signal via an aerial. The analogue signal is being switched off all over the country in stages and some people have already lost it. The new digital signal is slower - bandwidth again!
You can get Sis and Sis+ for £8000 per annum in the UK but you only get the ATR courses. TurfTV cover the remainder and that is only available to an LBO - Licensed Bookmaker Office.
We have to make do with ATR and RUK and for pre race trading they are good enough. They are not really good enough for in running ventures!!
In Spain you can get the transmissions from the Sky satellite but getting a subscription is the problem. They are supposed to be for UK clients - although I am not sure if there is an EU subscription? I do not suggest you break the law but I am sure you will know that many people in Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy etc find a way of getting a Sky card to allow them to view the broadcasts.
The only true live feed is the closed loop feed at the relevant course. If you visit some courses they have the feed fed directly to the screens but if the broadcaster does not have a presence at the track then it needs to be sent to a production centre somewhere for them to add commentary etc. That will create a delay and the more times the signal is bounced the greater the delay there will be.
I used to work in RF many years ago before satellite TV was generally available in the UK. The general way to cover a "live" event is to have cameras at the course and some form of mobile production unit - this is usually undertaken by RaceTech for a lot of UK racing ( I am not 100% about the role of this company in relationship to SiS and TurfTV). The pictures are processed and produced and then up linked to a satellite. The signal is then beamed down to a TV provider e.g. BSkyB in the UK and then it is distributed to the viewing public. They will add encryption if necessary. This all creates a delay.
Another delay is created by the bandwidth available to send the pictures. They cannot send the straight video, it needs to be compressed and then sent. If you use a cable provider then an extra delay will be added as that company takes the pictures and distributes them over their fibre optic network.
The fastest pictures are terrestrial in the UK provided they are the old analogue signal via an aerial. The analogue signal is being switched off all over the country in stages and some people have already lost it. The new digital signal is slower - bandwidth again!
You can get Sis and Sis+ for £8000 per annum in the UK but you only get the ATR courses. TurfTV cover the remainder and that is only available to an LBO - Licensed Bookmaker Office.
We have to make do with ATR and RUK and for pre race trading they are good enough. They are not really good enough for in running ventures!!
In Spain you can get the transmissions from the Sky satellite but getting a subscription is the problem. They are supposed to be for UK clients - although I am not sure if there is an EU subscription? I do not suggest you break the law but I am sure you will know that many people in Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy etc find a way of getting a Sky card to allow them to view the broadcasts.
Have a word with your local bookmaker manager, offer him a drink at the end of the day once you have made your profits (and i mean pysical drink fluid)and use the screens on one of those small laptops, although the standard punter may look at you and wonder what your doing, its bafaling how many of them do not know about the exchanges or they just chosse to give over there hard earned the old fasioned way 
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
I am in contact with Sky, but didn't get an answer yet.In Spain you can get the transmissions from the Sky satellite but getting a subscription is the problem. They are supposed to be for UK clients - although I am not sure if there is an EU subscription? I do not suggest you break the law but I am sure you will know that many people in Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy etc find a way of getting a Sky card to allow them to view the broadcasts.
It seems hard to believe they cannot sell me the box. I'm not an attorney, but I guess that as EU citizen I'm entitled to buy any service from any country in EU. I hope that tv rights don't mess this up, but I believe they won't, as no company is broadcasting this kind of event to these countries.
But let's wait and see...
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
Well, I was wrong, it breaches copyright protection. 
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
I guessed it would but thought perhaps you could have a EU subscription where you pay more money.CaerMyrddin wrote:Well, I was wrong, it breaches copyright protection.
I have heard of people that buy a subscription through a friend in the UK and just take the box and card abroad. Obviously I cannot advise you to do that because it is illegal.
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JacoboPolavieja
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:00 pm
I'm contemplating two options...
1. Create a corporation specialized in serving horse racing images to countries outside UK.
2. Create a webpage in the style of those who match US Citizens with Canadian Citizens to get much needed healthcare... only this would be with Sky Packs
.
Thanks a lot JollyGreen for the detailed explanation; great post.
Anyone know the average delay we would get with Sky? Do they offer ALL the races?
The last... how much is the monthly subscription to Sky?
Thanks a lot, this seems to be leading to a solution!
Cheers!
P.S: I thought about that recommendation of buying whisky to a local bookmaker... but betting shops are just starting out here in Spain (yes, we're years behind betting-wise). If it's all that's left after this, lets convince the girlfriend to use her weapons and have a password to the video feed! It's for our future good...
1. Create a corporation specialized in serving horse racing images to countries outside UK.
2. Create a webpage in the style of those who match US Citizens with Canadian Citizens to get much needed healthcare... only this would be with Sky Packs
.Thanks a lot JollyGreen for the detailed explanation; great post.
Anyone know the average delay we would get with Sky? Do they offer ALL the races?
The last... how much is the monthly subscription to Sky?
Thanks a lot, this seems to be leading to a solution!
Cheers!
P.S: I thought about that recommendation of buying whisky to a local bookmaker... but betting shops are just starting out here in Spain (yes, we're years behind betting-wise). If it's all that's left after this, lets convince the girlfriend to use her weapons and have a password to the video feed! It's for our future good...
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
Thank you for your replies.
I'll strive to get the fastest pictures I can get. All these dead ends have finnaly led to a solution. An expensive one, but a solution.
@JollyGreen, I wouldn't say it is illegal, I was told it goes against the spirit of Sky's terms and conditions
I'll strive to get the fastest pictures I can get. All these dead ends have finnaly led to a solution. An expensive one, but a solution.
@JollyGreen, I wouldn't say it is illegal, I was told it goes against the spirit of Sky's terms and conditions
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JacoboPolavieja
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:00 pm
Well, if finally the Sky option is achievable is not that expensive.
Just to clarify... I guess this is what we're talking about, right?: http://www.sky.com/shop/new
It goes from 27pounds/month to 37 if you want HD. RacingUK subscription is 25€/month, ATR one is around 12€/month... so not a big difference.
At last, if someone could clarify me these things, I'd be more than grateful:
1. Do they have all the horse races or just some as ATR?
2. How much is the delay, more or less?
3. sweetybt, what did you have to configure? I guess this is finally satellite so, any problem with that?
4. I guess this is easy to put through a computer, right? As I don't have a TV where I trade.
Thank you very much to all. You can't imagine how frustrating can this be... The situation is awkward to say the least.
Cheers!
Just to clarify... I guess this is what we're talking about, right?: http://www.sky.com/shop/new
It goes from 27pounds/month to 37 if you want HD. RacingUK subscription is 25€/month, ATR one is around 12€/month... so not a big difference.
At last, if someone could clarify me these things, I'd be more than grateful:
1. Do they have all the horse races or just some as ATR?
2. How much is the delay, more or less?
3. sweetybt, what did you have to configure? I guess this is finally satellite so, any problem with that?
4. I guess this is easy to put through a computer, right? As I don't have a TV where I trade.
Thank you very much to all. You can't imagine how frustrating can this be... The situation is awkward to say the least.
Cheers!
Sky is only available officially in the UK, so if you go through Sky they will tell you it's not available to you. That's why you need to either have someone based in the UK to take a subscription out for you, or arrange it through a local company in spain (though you'll have to pay more for this - have a look in spanish satellite magazines or ex pat publications.)
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JacoboPolavieja
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:00 pm
Yes, that's all clear now and there seems to be lots of possibilities really... from aranging with a company to knowing someone in the Uk which can have the subscription for you, etc... my final doubts are more related to the races offered and the delay.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Oh rite. Well RUK have a number of races from courses that ATR dont cover, have a look on their website and you'll see which ones they have. They include many of the bigger meetings such as Chelteham and Goodwood and tend to have more flat courses in the summer, so it's well worth getting.
As for the delay ATR is a few seconds behind terrestrial pics and SIS / Turft TV (which cost many £1000s) but this only really becomes relevant for in play traders. In short, if you're just doing pre race then ATR and RUK are all you need
As for the delay ATR is a few seconds behind terrestrial pics and SIS / Turft TV (which cost many £1000s) but this only really becomes relevant for in play traders. In short, if you're just doing pre race then ATR and RUK are all you need
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JacoboPolavieja
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:00 pm
I'm experimenting some in-play tactics... but for the long-term testing now.
I was really asking if SkyTV has all the races that ATR and RUK cover or they just have a subset? It's unbelievable that we can't have a straight deal and have all the races in one place...
Thank you all... I know British people are all used to horse racing, but here is not such a popular sport, and as you see we strugle more than you already do to have all thinks OK.
Cheers!
I was really asking if SkyTV has all the races that ATR and RUK cover or they just have a subset? It's unbelievable that we can't have a straight deal and have all the races in one place...
Thank you all... I know British people are all used to horse racing, but here is not such a popular sport, and as you see we strugle more than you already do to have all thinks OK.
Cheers!