Hey all,
I hope its OK to post here but I really need some advice from anybody in the know or who has experienced a similar issue.
I was scouting the Betfair exchange on Monday night for football matches where a team was winning by two goals so I could lay them. I come across a game in Iceland between Aug Valur v Stjarnan with the score 1:3. Stats were decent and I believed the odds offered value so I placed my lay at 1.06 for £500 giving me a liability of £30. I wasn’t watching the game live and was only going by in-play stats. A minute or two later I noticed my trade out value was £+60 so I cashed out using the Betfair interface. I then noticed the score was 1:2 which was strange, I couldn’t understand the delay in the disallowed goal as I believe there is no VAR in Iceland, The game finished 2:2 and my bet was settled at the end of the game and £60 was credited to my account.
Today I log into my account and noticed my balance was now £-259.86. (It was £+171 before I entered the trade.) I looked at my account statement and Betfair had voided my initial lay bet but left the back bet from my cash out. The back bet ended up being £431.45 at 1.24. Obviously this back bet was only to hedge my position and I was never looking to risk this amount as a straight back bet, I didn’t even have this amount in my account to risk.
I called betfair who told me the goal was wiped out two minutes after being scored and they got the traders to email me an explanation. They told me the bet was voided based on a specific time frame due to unfair matching. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused but this is the correct settlement and action per our own rules.
This experience has really blown my confidence in sports trading and Betfair. Is there anything I can do about it or have I just been very naive and paid an expensive price. My account is now £-259.86 and I assume Betfair will now chase me for this. I will complain and see what happens but I was interested in your thoughts. I just cant believe how easy it was for this to go wrong and hope anyone that views this learns from my experience.
I appreciate any feedback you can give
Void bet costing me a lot of money
-
spreadbetting
- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
I'd imagine it'll get overturned the further up you go as a "goodwill" payment, the customer sevice telephone/email reps have no sway whatsoever when it comes to credting accounts or even common sense for that matter. There's a guy on twitter who takes up punters cases if you have no joy getting it overturned yourself, I'll see if I can fnd his twitter. But they can hardly chase you up for the £-259.86 as that would be akin to them offering you a credit account which I'm gessing you never agreed to when opening the account, the gambling commission wouldn't be too happy if you took that to them 
Can't think of the twitter guy off hand but might be some useful tips here
https://justiceforpunters.org/complaining/
Can't think of the twitter guy off hand but might be some useful tips here
https://justiceforpunters.org/complaining/
-
ShaunWhite
- Posts: 10362
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
Take heart from the fact that this sort of thing is reasonably common with people who are quite new to the exchange. It's one way in which selling the exchange as a straight swap for a bookies is misleading, in that you need to be much more aware of the Ts&Cs and have experience of what might happen, rather than when you're at the bookies safely in the arms of consumer regs or victim to incorrect hasty payouts.
Good luck with your appeal, and remember that you're just as likely to benefit from a situation like that if the reverse had happened. The ups and downs from situations like that, or endless suspensions, failure to go in-play, internet outages etc etc do eventually level out, it's just an occupational hazzard we all face day in and day out. It's a good reminder that you always need to be aware of the proportion of your bank that's actually on the table at any given time. Keep it really small for a few months until you get to know the ins and outs.
Good luck with your appeal, and remember that you're just as likely to benefit from a situation like that if the reverse had happened. The ups and downs from situations like that, or endless suspensions, failure to go in-play, internet outages etc etc do eventually level out, it's just an occupational hazzard we all face day in and day out. It's a good reminder that you always need to be aware of the proportion of your bank that's actually on the table at any given time. Keep it really small for a few months until you get to know the ins and outs.
-
ShaunWhite
- Posts: 10362
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
That's the way to view it. Sometimes getting stung early on saves you 10x that amount further down the road. They'll balance out if you stick around long enough. Some markets are more suspectable than others, I don't know much about Icelandic football markets but they don't sound like the most reliable markets ever, probably just one guy on an ify moble phone relaying info to BFHQ.
-
ilovepizza82
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:41 pm
- Contact:
Why wasnt the back bet (cash out) voided as well ?!
-
convoysur-2
- Posts: 1110
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:00 am
Its happened to me on 3-4 occasions now,trying to get anything out of betfair is akin to wine from a stone.pauljames wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:24 pmHey all,
I hope its OK to post here but I really need some advice from anybody in the know or who has experienced a similar issue.
I was scouting the Betfair exchange on Monday night for football matches where a team was winning by two goals so I could lay them. I come across a game in Iceland between Aug Valur v Stjarnan with the score 1:3. Stats were decent and I believed the odds offered value so I placed my lay at 1.06 for £500 giving me a liability of £30. I wasn’t watching the game live and was only going by in-play stats. A minute or two later I noticed my trade out value was £+60 so I cashed out using the Betfair interface. I then noticed the score was 1:2 which was strange, I couldn’t understand the delay in the disallowed goal as I believe there is no VAR in Iceland, The game finished 2:2 and my bet was settled at the end of the game and £60 was credited to my account.
Today I log into my account and noticed my balance was now £-259.86. (It was £+171 before I entered the trade.) I looked at my account statement and Betfair had voided my initial lay bet but left the back bet from my cash out. The back bet ended up being £431.45 at 1.24. Obviously this back bet was only to hedge my position and I was never looking to risk this amount as a straight back bet, I didn’t even have this amount in my account to risk.
I called betfair who told me the goal was wiped out two minutes after being scored and they got the traders to email me an explanation. They told me the bet was voided based on a specific time frame due to unfair matching. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused but this is the correct settlement and action per our own rules.
This experience has really blown my confidence in sports trading and Betfair. Is there anything I can do about it or have I just been very naive and paid an expensive price. My account is now £-259.86 and I assume Betfair will now chase me for this. I will complain and see what happens but I was interested in your thoughts. I just cant believe how easy it was for this to go wrong and hope anyone that views this learns from my experience.
I appreciate any feedback you can give
i still dont know How or why they reakon its ok the way they settle these,just seems to be best to leave all cash outs till approx 6 misn after a goal,this os course is not ideal,but its the way it is,
I have no idea how to approach it in a better way
Because the cashout happened after the VAR decision.
Cashout is just an automated procedure to automatically trade out of a position and the "cashout" Trades happened after the VAR decision.
But I agree that the VAR has brought a lot of confusion into trading because it means that scores often get resetted after a few minutes.
Hey I just wanted to provide an update.
After numerous emails and phone calls I finally managed to get my decision reversed. They told me the void was due to VAR and as per there terms and conditions they acted accordingly and there was nothing they could do. This made me laugh as I knew that the game wasn’t covered by VAR so they were either lying to me or they just didn’t have a clue.
What I didn’t notice at first was when they did the reversal they actually did it wrong and took more money than they should have. I challenged them and they replied saying it was settled correctly and attached a copy of the transactions for me to see for myself. It wasn’t really that difficult to work out that I was missing money yet they seemed to struggle with it.
I followed the process and eventually made a complaint which was rejected by the same person who was dealing with all my emails (a senior member). I was fuming at this point so I sent an email back explaining that I wont be talking to this person anymore and I will escalate my complaint straight to the escalation management team and I would also be taking this up with the gambling commission. I told them again I knew VAR wasn't being used and also sent them my calculation of what my balance should be. To my surprise I then received the following response.
Our trading team have reviewed your account again and have cleared your negative balance and also restored your overall position in the market prior to the retrospective voiding, as a gesture of goodwill. We have also waived commission.
So they credited back all the money they took and also paid out the would be winnings from the voided lay bet. I found this whole experience a joke and it was handled badly from start to finish. The response from the traders was always short and come across arrogant at times. It just seems like its a my way or the high way attitude for them. The customer service reps just do what they are told so its not there fault.
To be honest I have dodged a bullet here and i am relieved that I got the positive out come in the end. Thanks for all the comments and good luck with your trading in the future.
After numerous emails and phone calls I finally managed to get my decision reversed. They told me the void was due to VAR and as per there terms and conditions they acted accordingly and there was nothing they could do. This made me laugh as I knew that the game wasn’t covered by VAR so they were either lying to me or they just didn’t have a clue.
What I didn’t notice at first was when they did the reversal they actually did it wrong and took more money than they should have. I challenged them and they replied saying it was settled correctly and attached a copy of the transactions for me to see for myself. It wasn’t really that difficult to work out that I was missing money yet they seemed to struggle with it.
I followed the process and eventually made a complaint which was rejected by the same person who was dealing with all my emails (a senior member). I was fuming at this point so I sent an email back explaining that I wont be talking to this person anymore and I will escalate my complaint straight to the escalation management team and I would also be taking this up with the gambling commission. I told them again I knew VAR wasn't being used and also sent them my calculation of what my balance should be. To my surprise I then received the following response.
Our trading team have reviewed your account again and have cleared your negative balance and also restored your overall position in the market prior to the retrospective voiding, as a gesture of goodwill. We have also waived commission.
So they credited back all the money they took and also paid out the would be winnings from the voided lay bet. I found this whole experience a joke and it was handled badly from start to finish. The response from the traders was always short and come across arrogant at times. It just seems like its a my way or the high way attitude for them. The customer service reps just do what they are told so its not there fault.
To be honest I have dodged a bullet here and i am relieved that I got the positive out come in the end. Thanks for all the comments and good luck with your trading in the future.
-
spreadbetting
- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
Well done, the higher up,or more you push them, the more they start to see sense, especially if there's a chance it may go the way of IBAS or the Gambling Commission and they'll lose. The real pain about is that you have to go those lengths for things which are usually quite obvious.
-
ShaunWhite
- Posts: 10362
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
Betfair are processing 100s of millions of transactions a day, on 1000s of markets. Mistakes happen particularly when you're trading relatively obscure markets where the 'usual' situation doesn't apply.
It's obviously not ideal when mistakes happen, but at least they have people to actually talk to and a formal escalation process, unlike companies like eBay and Paypal who will keep you waiting for weeks with only a bot to chat with. Sometimes this happens and you make an unexpected profit, I doubt many people escalate that problem and force them to take the money back so you can see why they need to be defensive as claims are always for refunds. And obvioulsy they have to carry that cost otherwise they need to identify the person(s) you traded against and reclaim your money from them. That's not cost efficient for them when you're talking about quite small amounts.
I'm not defending BF but things like this are all just part of trading, and for the sake of your blood pressure it's wise just to deal with it, get the issue resolved (because it usually will be) and move on. If you let it bother you then that might have an adverse affect on your judgement which would be costly and probably unnecessary. It's an occupational hazard that's not widely talked about because the day to day, business-as-usual proceedural stuff isn't as exciting as talking about winning money.
It's obviously not ideal when mistakes happen, but at least they have people to actually talk to and a formal escalation process, unlike companies like eBay and Paypal who will keep you waiting for weeks with only a bot to chat with. Sometimes this happens and you make an unexpected profit, I doubt many people escalate that problem and force them to take the money back so you can see why they need to be defensive as claims are always for refunds. And obvioulsy they have to carry that cost otherwise they need to identify the person(s) you traded against and reclaim your money from them. That's not cost efficient for them when you're talking about quite small amounts.
I'm not defending BF but things like this are all just part of trading, and for the sake of your blood pressure it's wise just to deal with it, get the issue resolved (because it usually will be) and move on. If you let it bother you then that might have an adverse affect on your judgement which would be costly and probably unnecessary. It's an occupational hazard that's not widely talked about because the day to day, business-as-usual proceedural stuff isn't as exciting as talking about winning money.
-
spreadbetting
- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
He was only giving us an update, Shaun, hardly a rant or raising his BP.ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:10 pm
I'm not defending BF but things like this are all just part of trading, and for the sake of your blood pressure it's wise just to deal with it, get the issue resolved (because it usually will be) and move on. If you let it bother you then that might have an adverse affect on your judgement which would be costly and probably unnecessary. It's an occupational hazard that's not widely talked about because the day to day, business-as-usual proceedural stuff isn't as exciting as talking about winning money.