what i'm *wondering* is whether my wifes account (cough) which is used purely for outright betting will attract any further significant commission if i (i mean SHE) moves it to 2% basic. i'm assuming as there are no offset bets getting placed on this account, that all commission required is being paid. in short, should it breach the £250k threshold, will it attract PC, even tho purely dealing in outright bets... as i said *my wifes* account purely deals in outright betting!!
Be careful, I had a 50k bill recently because of something similar.
whao - that must have been a bit of an early xmas (for BF). how exactly did that creep up -and yes, potentially this account could be a similar scenario!! concerned to keep things *straight* but at the same time, minimize surprises further down the line (be it this year, or next)
So you only need to worry if it’s in profit / paying PC regularly, they don’t care until this happens. Also don’t underestimate the amount of data they have when it comes to accounts and logins, in my example they wanted to know why my account / wife’s account had 100+ shared device logins over the past few years
I was lazy, pushed it a bit too far and paid the price.
.... don’t underestimate the amount of data they have when it comes to accounts and logins, in my example they wanted to know why my account / wife’s account had 100+ shared device logins over the past few years
LOL If only the gambling industry could turn their abilities onto terrorist organisations.
I heard that BF had a cave in Afganistan and a Mansion in Pakistan linked as a joint account in 2009
LOL If only the gambling industry could turn their abilities onto terrorist organisations.
I heard that BF had a cave in Afganistan and a Mansion in Pakistan linked as a joint account in 2009
It's not so far feteched, the money laudering regs (partly in place to quell terrorism) do require BF and the rest to report that kind of thing. GCHQ had the idea before you did
I've had a Betfair account for several years now and over its lifetime (on the exchange) I've got gross losses of -5k and total charges of just under 20k so by my understanding I'd have to generate profits of around 100k before being eligible for premium charge.
I've used the account exclusively for straight betting but over the last few months have gotten into trading and while nowhere near the finished article I'm making slow and steady profits week on week so I could envisage a day where I'd have to consider PC.
My question is for someone in my position is the 2% rewards plan the best and should I be trying to generate more commission even at this extremely early stage? And lastly the best way of generating commission I'm assuming is to straight back or lay into really efficient markets and aim for a breakeven (or slightly better) return?
I've had a Betfair account for several years now and over its lifetime (on the exchange) I've got gross losses of -5k and total charges of just under 20k so by my understanding I'd have to generate profits of around 100k before being eligible for premium charge.
I've used the account exclusively for straight betting but over the last few months have gotten into trading and while nowhere near the finished article I'm making slow and steady profits week on week so I could envisage a day where I'd have to consider PC.
My question is for someone in my position is the 2% rewards plan the best and should I be trying to generate more commission even at this extremely early stage? And lastly the best way of generating commission I'm assuming is to straight back or lay into really efficient markets and aim for a breakeven (or slightly better) return?
Ty
Hi Leeds, welcome to the forum. If you won a straight £100K without losing anything (worst case scenario), your overall position on 5% would be: £95K gross profit and £44.5K total charges. Still over 50% charges.
On 2% it would be £95K gross profit and £41K charges, still over double the 20% you need to fall below before being subject to PC. I would go for 2% but obviously you would need to keep an eye on your position frequently and consider whether you're still on the right strategy.
I received an email from Betfair telling me that my rewards will be changing from next month but when I looked at the reward page nothing appears to have changed. Anyone else received that email?
I received an email from Betfair telling me that my rewards will be changing from next month but when I looked at the reward page nothing appears to have changed. Anyone else received that email?
I haven't but I know a lot of people have, be interesting to see if it's a small change or a big one
I received an email from Betfair telling me that my rewards will be changing from next month but when I looked at the reward page nothing appears to have changed. Anyone else received that email?
Yeah I got that email too, contacted customer services yesterday, apparently the email was sent out in mistake and I was told to ignore it.
I received an email from Betfair telling me that my rewards will be changing from next month but when I looked at the reward page nothing appears to have changed. Anyone else received that email?
Yeah I got that email too, contacted customer services yesterday, apparently the email was sent out in mistake and I was told to ignore it.
Thanks, I thought it might be, just like the error cash race winning emails.
What worried me is due to you're recent activity we've changed your rewards. I was beginning to worry about what I've done!
Hello guys, first post here,
glad to meet you all.
Last couple of weeks spent hours trying to figure out the best way - 2%, 5% or 8% commissions debate
It all depends, but please, do read on. There are so much details and nuances. I am not a trader per se, and do have many more wins than loses.
2% Commission plan
First - the facts - if you stay on 2% bracket - your Total Charges (TC)will be NO MORE than 20% of Gross profit. In simple words for every 1000 Eur, you will have 800 in your pocket. But the structure of these 200 is different. In 2% case - 2.6-3% (5.5 EUR) of these 200 Eur are from Generated Commissions (CG) (paid commissions + IC (losses * 0.03)) and the rest 96-7% (194.5 EUR) are through Premium Charges (PC). That is. It does not matter how much you win/lose per month/year.
This is good up to the 250K mark when you do fail to meet the requirements and get stuck at 60% Bracket. Then it sucks!
5% Commission plan
Next logical step is churning. I mean arbing or matched betting with another bookie/even pinnacle. We are doing it in case to raise these 2.5-3%% up to 10% for the 40% bracket - the most sensible one. Churning depends on how much we do earn my month/week/year. Lets say that you do earn Gross 5K per month (no churning, your regular strategies). In this case the absolute amount churned depends on our TC and GC. You should aim at 10-11% TC (15% paid commission) in case you want to be in the 40% Super PC. In our case 5K/4 weeks = 1200 Euro weekly. The moment you have paid through commission 15-16% you are good to go. Yes you do still pay regular PC, but the picture is different. Yes, you are paying 20% (240 EUR) again, but 65% of these come in the form of TC and only 35% as PC. Same amount paid, but through different channels. In case you didn’t cover the 11% TC requirements you need to churn the amount needed. Simple calculation states that for every 100 (And 100 in at the bookie for cover) EUR bet you will have generated 4 EUR TC. So proceed accordingly. Churning is most effective at odds 1.5/3 up to 3/1.5 because 1.8-2% amount goes to TC.
Yes, at the end, even if you do all right and tight there are some minor differences - in our case the difference in 5K monthly from 2% scenario and 5% scenario described above is no more than 3% or about 120 Euro. I mean you will have paid more money from you pocket using the 5% comm, than clear cut 2%, but don’t forget Betfair give 150GBP + Acca + Casino bonus every month you are on 5% Commission so if you win up to 8K monthly Gross - it is the same in terms of money. But you will have generated more commissions and will be in 40% bracket in Super PC. And yes - return on losses for a losing month!
So that is the math - straight and simple. Yes, there is variation, sometimes we will not even pay PC, but that is the base case. Some important notes:
- don’t aim at not paying weekly PC through churning. It is not financially sound.
- Don’t aim at paying more than 40% in commissions - again - not financially sound
- Don’t look at the 5% commission paid while churning as an Expense. It is not!!!! This is the most important thing to understand and it took me 1 week to calculate it. Don’t consider it as a margin - again it is not.
- It is okay to churn at 0% if you want/need. Back Inter 100@2 in Pinnacle and Lay Inter 100@2 is a perfectly sound financial decision. Again math says that distribute the profit (if it is an arb) evenly - is more effective than one-sided.
- Use regular bookies. Most of them are offering some pretty good tools for this process - 2 goals early payout, 0:0 return of wager etc. They offer different type of value we can use in the churning (2% and 6% respectively).
With the extinction of Premium Charges, no one pays 50 or 60% anymore and there is no longer any concern about generating commissions to avoid these two levels, however my doubt persists.
For someone like me who already pays 40% of Expert Fess, what is the best reward plan currently? 2%, 6% or 9%?
I've always been on the 5% plan (6% after a recent change) but I'm considering changing to 2%, can anyone explain to me with a simple calculation if it's the best option?
The calculation must take into account that I receive £225 per month in free bets on this plan.
rewards.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
With the extinction of Premium Charges, no one pays 50 or 60% anymore and there is no longer any concern about generating commissions to avoid these two levels, however my doubt persists.
For someone like me who already pays 40% of Expert Fess, what is the best reward plan currently? 2%, 6% or 9%?
I've always been on the 5% plan (6% after a recent change) but I'm considering changing to 2%, can anyone explain to me with a simple calculation if it's the best option?
The calculation must take into account that I receive £225 per month in free bets on this plan.
rewards.png
Assuming a profitable account, and discounting the other benefits, the 2% plan will always return better than the 5% plan. This is due to the way implied commission is calculated (always returning1.25% of losing markets no matter which commission rate you pay).
The value of profit upside is directly linked to your win%. The lower the win% then the greater the upside of switching from 5% to 2%.
So you need to calculate your specific figures to weigh up whether your forecasted upside is worth more to you than the other benefits you would lose.
eg if winning markets totals £100,000 and losing markets total £90,000. On 5% plan:
Gross profit = £10,000
Commission paid = £5,000
Commission generated = £3,625 = (£2,500 + £1,125)
Expert fee due = £375
Net profit = £4,625
On 2% plan:
Gross profit = £10,000
Commission paid = £2,000
Commission generated = £2,125 = (£1,000 + £1,125)
Expert fee due = £1,875
Net profit = £6,125
But if your figures were; winning markets totals £20,000 and losing markets total £10,000. On 5% plan:
Gross profit = £10,000
Commission paid = £1000
Commission generated = £625 = (£500 + £125)
Expert fee due = £3,375
Net profit = £5,625
On 2% plan:
Gross profit = £10,000
Commission paid = £400
Commission generated = £325 = (£200 + £125)
Expert fee due = £3,675
Net profit = £5,925
After all this I did below I've just seen James has beaten me to the punch...again but seeing as it's typed now.....
Nice example numbers james btw.
2%
You sound consistent but some people pay more than they could be paying on each race, so they have gross profit but then a smaller or no net profit to pay the fee with. If it was income tax they're paying 40% tax on a small weekly wage incase they earn more next week.
Pocket all you can first and worry about the fee later.
Bit gutted about the new fee structure personally, I'd managed to stay over 40% lifetime deliberately so wasn't paying any pc, and now all that effort is down the pan.
I know leaning on GPT is the easy lazy way but I've just sanity checked that .....
Screenshot_13.jpg
Screenshot_14.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
(always returning1.25% of losing markets no matter which commission rate you pay)
Although my win% is high, I think I will have an advantage in changing to the 2% plan, here are the values of my last 30 days so that you can make a more accurate calculation.
profit.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
is whether my wifes account (cough) which is used purely for outright betting will attract any further significant commission if i (i mean SHE) moves it to 2% basic. i'm assuming as there are no offset bets getting placed on this account, that all commission required is being paid. in short, should it breach the £250k threshold, will it attract PC, even tho purely dealing in outright bets... as i said *my wifes* account purely deals in outright betting!!
but seeing as it's typed now.....