Automation disaster, huge loss, oddly calm

[brimson25]

I had very expensive disaster at the weekend, which wiped about 30% of my bank. Here goes:

I'd been doing a bit of pre-off horse race trading.

I had applied a servant to all markets to hedge all positions and green up on inplay (which works fantastically for pre-off horses), to remove the risk/temptation of going inplay and losing the lot.

I then, did a bit of football correct score laying, with the intention of managing inplay. All fine so far.

I had not realised that I applied this same servant to this football market as well. So, I check the market after about 20 minutes play as was my intention, to hopefully see few goals and a position I can close for a profit. Instead, I see a huge red liability (much bigger than my original lay liability) against almost all scores. I didn't understand what had happened at first. I attributed the first error to "fat fingers", I was trying to close the first position on my phone, in the dark without glasses, like a a prize pillock.

And so - the same thing happened the next day. Only then did I check the logs and work it out.

I'm posting this for a few reasons.

1. To own the mistake. I was a moron, but everyone makes mistakes, and I'm proud both that I have worked it out (and deleted the rule to prevent future accidents) and not gone crackers. And to draw a line under it in my head, because I keep dwelling on it.

2. To warn others. Please be careful. Don't be as stupid as me.

I've used Bet Angel regularly for a while, and although I'm not as proficient as many on here, I was lulled I think into an over-confidence, based on familiarity. I should add finally that in no way am I blaming the software. It was my fault and my fault alone (particularly in repeating the error).

I've had a tough time recently with various issues, but Bet Angel remains an excellent product, IF USED CORRECTLY. If you get it as wrong as I did, it can lead to a right old mess.

[Kai]

Well done for manning up and publicly admitting such a mistake, I'm sure that all sorts of disasters happen very frequently but people don't share them with others. Can certainly go far with that attitude, most people like blaming external factors for their own mistakes, and when mistakes do happen they will usually ignore them if they are too painful and thus perhaps not learn the necessary lesson.

Football CS laying with automation can be very tricky since all of the prices are pretty high so not much margin for error, perhaps you could manage the positions/risk better if you instead backed CS.

[brimson25]

Thanks Kai. I'm reviewing everything, but I certainly won't be automating anything for a while. The idea of bets firing off, without me there is a bit raw at the moment!

[Hepburn]

I regulary backup and organise my automation folder to keep things tidy. Renaming bots with clear names may help too.

[brimson25]

Cheers. My naming practices are shoddy, so if I ever do anything automated again, I'll sort that.

[Derek27]

Reminds me of when I lost £300 as a result of oversleeping and not closing trade. My initial reaction was, if I can't get up by 2 o'clock on a Sunday afternoon when I've got live trades I thoroughly deserved to lose that money. But at the end of the day it does make you a bit wiser, won't happen again and will soon be just history.

Personally, following a disaster, I prefer to draw a line under it and get back to profiting, rather than counting how much of the loss has been recovered and how much is still to go. Good luck brimson.

[Kai]

My naming practices are shoddy, so if I ever do anything automated again, I'll sort that.

Easier said than done but try not to let it scar you from using automation in the future, if you feel that's where the opportunities are all of the previous mistakes can be made up for later.

I've often created a bigger loss by messing around and trying something new, but sometimes despite the loss I was very excited about having another go at the market/strategy because I've discovered something new that I otherwise probably wouldn't. Mistakes due to fatfingers/carelessness/outages are hard to take, especially when a trader is not yet consistently profitable, but there's not much you can do about it other than see it as a test of character.

[ShaunWhite]

You've handled it brilliantly. Sh!t happens and you've recognised that when it often makes people loose their marbles and end up even worse.

I'd put good money on the fact that there isn't a serious trader out there who hasn't had a cock-up at sometime. But remember, cock-ups work both ways and someday you'll have another (or an api outage or something) that probably wins all of that back.

You've earnt your tiger stripes now, even if they were a bit expensive.

[brimson25]

Derek, Kai, Shaun - thanks for the support. I actually think it's a positive experience in a way, because it underlines this a serious thing, with real money, not a computer game or something!

Onwards!

[Bear's The Name]

If it's any consolation, we've probably all been there at some time or another. I know I have. Only takes one tiny error in a rules file with hundreds of rules and conditions to do it.

One way to limit potential future disasters is by going into settings and setting a maximum liability but be sure it's large enough to cover all eventualities i.e. you don't want it causing some bets not to trigger because you've set it too low.

[Derek27]

You've handled it brilliantly. Sh!t happens and you've recognised that when it often makes people loose their marbles and end up even worse.

I think it might have been Jolly Green that mentioned a trader who smashed up his computer after a bad market and said he felt better for getting rid of his frustration. Obviously the loss must have been big enough to render the cost of a new computer insignificant!

[Kai]

Derek, Kai, Shaun - thanks for the support. I actually think it's a positive experience in a way, because it underlines this a serious thing, with real money, not a computer game or something!

Well, to be perfectly honest you could think of trading as just a (computer) game in general, because at its core I guess it could be classified as a risk management game. Not trying to be philosophical but life in general could be viewed as a game as well, like in any other game in life most players are just terrible and not many get to level 100

So imho nothing wrong with treating trading as a game, perhaps a controversial opinion but one could even argue that a lifetime habit of problem solving and muscle memory practice could even be considered as the perfect preparation for trading, since those are exactly the two skills that are needed the most?

I think it might have been Jolly Green that mentioned a trader who smashed up his computer after a bad market and said he felt better for getting rid of his frustration. Obviously the loss must have been big enough to render the cost of a new computer insignificant!

Wow, people are animals. There's only one thing worse than a wife beater and that's a computer beater

[brimson25]

If it's any consolation, we've probably all been there at some time or another. I know I have. Only takes one tiny error in a rules file with hundreds of rules and conditions to do it.

One way to limit potential future disasters is by going into settings and setting a maximum liability but be sure it's large enough to cover all eventualities i.e. you don't want it causing some bets not to trigger because you've set it too low.

I didn't know you could do that, thanks.

[brimson25]

Derek, Kai, Shaun - thanks for the support. I actually think it's a positive experience in a way, because it underlines this a serious thing, with real money, not a computer game or something!

Well, to be perfectly honest you could think of trading as just a (computer) game in general, because at its core I guess it could be classified as a risk management game. Not trying to be philosophical but life in general could be viewed as a game as well, like in any other game in life most players are just terrible and not many get to level 100

So imho nothing wrong with treating trading as a game, perhaps a controversial opinion but one could even argue that a lifetime habit of problem solving and muscle memory practice could even be considered as the perfect preparation for trading, since those are exactly the two skills that are needed the most?

I think it might have been Jolly Green that mentioned a trader who smashed up his computer after a bad market and said he felt better for getting rid of his frustration. Obviously the loss must have been big enough to render the cost of a new computer insignificant!

Wow, people are animals. There's only one thing worse than a wife beater and that's a computer beater

I like that way of thinking - I suppose the key is that it's a game not to be taking flippantly

[spreadbetting]

Unlucky , Brimson, it's not only newcomers that drop a bollock, I dropped a few £K on one recently and I've been doing this for over 10 years. Don't let it put you off though as you'd be surprised how quickly those little automated wins soon clear a loss.