Why do traders not make courses/teach it?

[ShaunWhite]

50hrs a week

What do you base 50 hours per week on? I would have thought that the average trader spends 15-30 hours trading + up to a few hours learning, analysing or rewatching trades etc

A guess. I don't trade manually so I don't know what hours you guys do, but I do maybe 8hrs a day for 5 days and 3 or 4hrs each day at the weekend. 50ish? Analysing stats, refining strategies, reading research papers, coding, testing, adding things to a todo list just so I can cross them off, making coffee, it just seems to fill every waking hour given a chance and if I had to sit and trade as well it would be even more. I see it as 10,000hrs rather than 10,000 races but whatever it is you aren't going to get to 10,000 of either very quickly doing 15hrs a week. I'd imagine most uk traders would do all the uk horse stuff, say an average over the year of 1pm till 8ish at least 6 days a week, that's 42, then all the record keeping and maybe looking through data. Plus looking for opportunities in football or tennis or other things. You can easily do 60 or 70+hrs a week if it's your passion.

[ShaunWhite]

Agree, I honestly don't know how anyone could cope with learning to trade whilst having kids/an unsupportive partner

why do you think there's so many 40 & 50somethings here. The golden time for trading is when the kids have gone, you've upgraded to wife v2.0 because wife v1.0 had a track record of being unsupportive, you've saved some money to play with, and can't really be arsed to do the corporate brown-nosing or have the energy to be a 'go getter'. Not wanting to go back to the work of employment again and the clock ticking sharpens you up too, and hopefully by then you've also realised the importance of time management, project planning and scheduling etc so you just crack on with it rather than drifting.

[megarain]

I do think TIME is an element as to why successful traders don't teach.

50 hrs a week would be a holiday for me .. I am much more like 70 hrs a week - especially now in lockdown.

If u have a proven track record, and can sustain .. say min wage+ per hour, then taking that time and allocating it elsewhere means
you are forgoing definite income, for an unknown return/experience.

The value of time, in experienced hands should not be underestimated. There are many areas we can all improve -- especially areas not even on the map.

[Kai]

I do think TIME is an element as to why successful traders don't teach.

I agree, for some people it's the main element, since quality structured courses and content require effort and time which many pros don't really have. That's why for example some Portuguese pros just upload their recorded trading session and try to sell it individually instead of a packaged deal like everyone else, as it requires no real effort. I personally really like this "teaching" model, for me it's a perfect way to get a complete insight into the work of others, and regarding courses in general those are basically the only things that I ever purchased.

Don't know whether I would end up buying most of the courses out there if I had to make the choice. Packaged courses were mostly shared with me through a bit of networking with other traders, even most of the UK stuff. For example one of my friends went to Peter's masterclass (on the off chance that Peter remembers him, his name was Andrija and was apparently by far the youngest one and the only one asking any questions) and was kind enough to let me borrow Peter's trading bible. Another friend flew over to see what Mugs had to say and so on.

Not sure how appropriate it would be to make an objective review of certain products and courses, I like to keep my opinions for myself as it can be a sensitive subject. Since Mr Berry is obviously one of the more popular ones my impression of his content is that it's practically a scalping tutorial, not trying to be harsh but don't remember seeing a swing trade at all (and Shaka Zulu swing on baby stakes so early in the market doesn't count imho). If someone had to be harsh maybe they'd call him a glorified scalper but I did learn something from him regarding scalping mechanics so have to give some credit, although I've used it on different markets. Since scalping is not something that is perfectly suited to the increasingly volatile racing markets I don't think his followers are having much success with his approaches, perhaps this is why he is focusing on matched betting and other projects.

50 hrs a week would be a holiday for me .. I am much more like 70 hrs a week - especially now in lockdown.

I'd say it very much depends on trading approach and the type of market. I was doing 60+ hrs a week of ladder only time in my first year trying to get experience on everything, not counting the hours doing any other trading related stuff, and I wanted to do a lot more hours than that but just couldn't maintain a healthy sleeping schedule due to tetris effect. Obviously, social life had to be completely sacrificed which is not usually an easy task for someone that just turned 30.

In recent years most of the time my ladder time has been reduced to about 20 hrs a week, with certain busier periods and big tournaments (like Euros) increasing that to 40 max I think. But this was a conscious effort and a difficult one too, to actively try and get a better time/return ratio since I felt my trading could have been a lot more efficient timewise. Which is a bit of a bummer, since some of the more casual trading approaches that I enjoyed using are becoming too expensive timewise, and a manual approach cannot really be justified anymore. This approach would in turn also free up time that I can use to keep improving elsewhere, because spending all of the free time on grinding the markets all day leaves no real space for improvement. Like you say, foregoing a good chunk of the markets below a certain threshold is sort of a must, if you want a balanced life in general and time to do plenty of other things, especially at this age range, like typing out this post which is a bit of a luxurious activity timewise.

Luckily the markets do give you the opportunity to tweak your time/profit ratios if you want to. Speaking from my own example, if you can potentially end up with basically the same result after a 3day trade (like football), or a 3hour trade (football), or a 3min trade (football/racing) or a 3sec trade (racing). Of course, you can't influence how often the opportunities are generated but you can for sure pick your battles and look for compressed periods of activity and opportunity.

The value of time, in experienced hands should not be underestimated. There are many areas we can all improve -- especially areas not even on the map.

Key takeaway for me btw, a lot of people will look at a result from a black and white perspective, but in my opinion a result is only as good as the amount of time/effort required in obtaining it.

[spreadbetting]

I do find it amusing half the people giving advice about being full time aren't even earning their living as full time traders anyway. Plus so many people saying time is a valuable commodity yet waste so much of it posting on the forum.

[Derek27]

I do find it amusing half the people giving advice about being full time aren't even earning their living as full time traders anyway. Plus so many people saying time is a valuable commodity yet waste so much of it posting on the forum.

The terms full time traders and pros can be used interchangeably in the right context. Posting to the forum isn't a waste of time. It's like talking to your wife. Actually, talking to my last girlfriend was a waste of time because she never listened but that's not generally the case.

[megarain]

I do find it amusing half the people giving advice about being full time aren't even earning their living as full time traders anyway. Plus so many people saying time is a valuable commodity yet waste so much of it posting on the forum.

Yeah, can relate to this. You really do need to know how much the lifetime P/L on an exchange is, to work out if someones hrly rate is worth anything.

For Transparency, and becos I really dont care anymore, my lifetime Betfair P/L is over 4 mill.

[Euler]

I do find it amusing half the people giving advice about being full time aren't even earning their living as full time traders anyway. Plus so many people saying time is a valuable commodity yet waste so much of it posting on the forum.

It's got nothing to do with wasting time. It's talking to like-minded people.

Plenty of very good traders on this forum who have been around for many many years. Quite a few of which I'm lucky enough to have met.

You do get a good dose of reality on the forum which may seem acerbic to people who haven't had to go through what a lot of members have to become successful.

The problem that the newbie trading community has now is so much 'advice' is given purely as a sales pitch and little else. From people who shouldn't really be dispensing it. But that's the nature of betting / trading is the market is full of it. Plenty of people out there to grab a fast buck from people just starting out.

[PeterLe]

For Transparency, and becos I really dont care anymore, my lifetime Betfair P/L is over 4 mill.

Crikey! I must pull my finger out! (Well done!)

[Kai]

Funny how these types of threads keep following the same patterns, the same people keep repeating the same things and reaching the same conclusions

If there's nothing really new to say overall then that's simple proof that people just want to hang out, and talk to other like-minded people like Peter said, why else would you all be here right now. Even the guys that are wasting their time just to tell others how they're wasting their own time, how funny is that. Maybe time you all enjoy wasting is not wasted time at all, the concept of wasted time is a very tricky one

It's still fun to see differing opinions and where everyone is on their journey. Please don't let some of my posts confuse you, as a lowly PC1 pleb I very much consider myself a beginner and still feel like I've just started on my journey It's great to see so many potential role models and potential paths that one can take. Ideally I'd like to be the worst trader on the forum, don't think I'd learn anything if I was the best one.

[Derek27]

Even the guys that are wasting their time just to tell others how they're wasting their own time, how funny is that.

[Kai]

Holy crap I've just done the math and I think I might be a millionare trader too, if by living in a cheap 3rd world country every pound I make is worth 5x more???

Did I just hack life?? If so, you're welcome. Sorry for flexing but feels Goodman. I must update my Tinder asap.

[ShaunWhite]

At the end of the day, trading is a form entrepreneurship, it's a gamble, it's a massive gamble yeah. But imho it's better to make that gamble young, when you've got little to no commitments (i.e. no young family).

Agree, I honestly don't know how anyone could cope with learning to trade whilst having kids/an unsupportive partner

'no committments' is young persons' code for 'still somebody elses committment'
I think a lot of us would have liked a crack at the bigtime but just couldn't afford to do it when we were young because we struggled to pay the rent and bills even without kids.

[spreadbetting]

At the end of the day, trading is a form entrepreneurship, it's a gamble, it's a massive gamble yeah. But imho it's better to make that gamble young, when you've got little to no commitments (i.e. no young family).

Agree, I honestly don't know how anyone could cope with learning to trade whilst having kids/an unsupportive partner

'no committments' is young persons' code for 'still somebody elses committment'
I think a lot of us would have liked a crack at the bigtime but just couldn't afford to do it when we were young because we struggled to pay the rent and bills even without kids.

When I started I had a couple of kids crawling over the keyboard and a partner who thinks you're continually available. Maybe it was a hindrance or maybe having a mortgage and commitments helps you focus as you know what the alternative's hold. Either way Betfair wasn't around in my 20's so you just take the opportunities when they arise.

[Kai]

There's no need for excuses lads, isn't it a marathon and not a sprint?

Fair play to anyone who's been in the game maybe even before Betfair and had the foresight, glancing at his blog I see megarain was a racecourse bookie or something 30 years ago, that's interesting stuff.

Anyway, it should never be too late really to go for it, "it" being whatever your definition of success/freedom is, providing you lay some quality groundwork beforehand of course. At least that's how I see it, regardless whether time is on your side or not.