Trading What I see !?

[Kai]

Not quite given up @Kai, just a shift in mindset, I did say I was taking a new turn...
TodayPL.jpg

Sorry, wasn't following much last several pages but don't see a reason to tilt on that last race, on the P&L screenie, the P&L looked fine to me

[goat68]

Today's results look quite good to me Goat, what's all the fuss about! Even if that one you let run was a loss, you still would have been up over all.

What stake size was that? Not minimum stakes that's for sure!

£50, but I am targeting £5 risk on each trade, which is actually now only 1% of my account, £500, thanks to today and also another lucky mistake a couple of weeks ago..
I really hated £5 stakes, I started trading everything, as it was easy to slip into ladders with only £15 on each side....!
Anyway, you're probably right I'll just blow it all the same

[Maturin]

£50, but I am targeting £5 risk on each trade, which is actually now only 1% of my account, £500, thanks to today and also another lucky mistake a couple of weeks ago..
I really hated £5 stakes, I started trading everything, as it was easy to slip into ladders with only £15 on each side....!
Anyway, you're probably right I'll just blow it all the same

Well, keep it going, without the going in play part! Luckily I've never had a problem with going in play, but I do have lots of other problems!

[spreadbetting]

Today's results look quite good to me Goat, what's all the fuss about! Even if that one you let run was a loss, you still would have been up over all.

What stake size was that? Not minimum stakes that's for sure!

£50, but I am targeting £5 risk on each trade, which is actually now only 1% of my account, £500, thanks to today and also another lucky mistake a couple of weeks ago..
I really hated £5 stakes, I started trading everything, as it was easy to slip into ladders with only £15 on each side....!
Anyway, you're probably right I'll just blow it all the same

I could never see the point of playing in minimum stakes either. Higher stakes focus your mind and sorts the men out from the boys. And if it all goes tits up at least you'll find out a lot sooner and won't have wasted as much time

[wearthefoxhat]

Hi Goat. don't if helpful, but sometimes if I have free time and I have already traded my daytime session with normal bank, I will do some evening races using £2 stakes and experiment with all kinds of crazy stuff. Never can lose too much and its a a way to explore all those wacky ideas you may have. Plus you are getting more screen time and doing different stuff so you may spots things you never have before.

Thanks smallplayer, I did £5 stakes for a while, and I found it has drawbacks, because you can trade any old liquidity, which isn't actually good practice in my view, assuming you have scaling in mind. Also, being honest through a bit of luck, I am actually in profit for the 6 months I have been at this, especially after today. Things went pear shape on my last illogical trade, the fav shot northwards and I was staring -£20 if I greened, or -£50/+£160 if I let it run...god knows why the price shot northwards the darn thing won ! Disregarding this last one, it's being a good day except for that one rogue trade. I'm afraid you will find me a bit unorthodox !! Not quite given up @Kai, just a shift in mindset, I did say I was taking a new turn...
TodayPL.jpg

Letting it run (assuming it's In-Play) is probably the most under-estimated option as part of a trade. Some traders will frown on it as "gambling" but it can make a big difference in the long run. It's essentially a swing-trade with a punch, yes it could go wrong, but as long as the potential loss is a sensible % of the overall bank, all should be fine.

Some I my best results have been on the specials markets as news unfolds and a view of fact v sentiment takes over.

The horse race in-play market still offers some good opportunities for anyone willing to read the race and watch how the race itself unfolds. A little more nuance required but, different strokes for different folks.

[firlandsfarm]

Hi firlandsfarm.....I think you are beating yourself up too much about this if you don't mind me saying so. Being spoon fed someone's style and system isn't the way to go if all you do is copy it verbatim. If you can't figure Pete's style or anyone else's for that matter then devise your own but learn what sound trading principles and philosophy are first. All successful traders are "effectively inventing their own version of the wheel"...if you don't do that then you are replicating and that is not a recipe for success, or not long term success anyway. Investment Banks like Goldman Sachs for example highly value innovative thinking even if the trader isn't successful yet and has only ever lost money. Graduates with resumes with 2:1s and Masters often go straight into the bin in favour of someone with actual trading experience on many professional trading desks.

I will repeat Warren Buffet's famous quote, its harsh but very true......"first come the innovators, then come the imitators and finally come the idiots". Traders need to take a 30,000ft view of this and stand further away and see it as a bigger issue. I would much rather finance a trader who was learning and losing and trying to devise their own system and had failed with 20 bespoke systems of their own than one who straight from the get go was using someone else's well trodden path. The former has a larger potential capacity when done right. It would have a similar effect to too many people being in the same line of business in the same city.....the slice of the pie just gets smaller and smaller until there is no pie left. We all need a leg up sometimes, a bit like reaching for the dictionary when you can't be arsed to wrack your brain anymore to get the final answer in the crossword puzzle but reaching for the dictionary all the time isn't a good thing is it??

IMHO, my guess is that you aren't taking the proper lessons from your own experience because that has more value than perhaps you realise, it is after all a form of intellectual property. And numbers never change on a betting exchange at random, it just appears so. If a person couldn't read, the words and letters in a book would seem random but what you perceive to be "random" is in fact volatility that you are not translating correctly. As Pete said a while back, the market will trick you into doing certain things and you need to step back from that world.

Just my two penneth

Thanks for your two-penneth Morbius. For someone who doesn't know me at all you write as if you have known me all my life! So let me correct you on a few things. I wasn't beating myself up at all, I was telling it as I see it and I don't see it. I wasn't criticising me or anyone I was simply saying I don't see these patterns others claim to see and that's a fact.

I agree with your "don't try and copy" comment but I'm not trying nor wanting to copy anyone. There is a difference between learning and doing. You stand a better chance of being successful when 'doing' if you first take the trouble to learn. And part of the learning process is to understand what others find successful. So before 'doing' I tried to understand what others were doing and frankly I can't see it and no amount of insistence that I can see it will change that. To understand does not mean to copy.

I never said the numbers on the exchange move at random, I said they appear to move at random. If someone cannot see a pattern in movement then the alternative is that the movement appears random.

I was in the investment game all my life and am fully aware of GS and others and what they do but thank you for suggesting WB would call me an idiot!

I think you are making too much of this, it's a simple fact ... I cannot see any pattern in the way the numbers move. I'm happy with that and I'm happy with what I do and the returns I make. I prefer to let my automation rules do the work so I can enjoy my retirement life as I have for over 20 years.

Just accept that people have different skills. By insisting that others can trade if they look again you could be making yourself responsible for lots of people losing lots of money. There are enough that come and go from this forum with lighter pockets, I don't think we should create more. By all means we should offer help and support but we should not be saying 'anyone can do it'!

Just my t
two-penneth - Urban Dictionarywww.urbandictionary.com › define › term=two-penneth
Back. Loading... Top definition. two-penneth. Oldish English saying. When someone gives you his thoughts and views or opinion on what you should do about a ...

Just my two penn'orth

[Korattt]

Well, keep it going, without the going in play part! Luckily I've never had a problem with going in play, but I do have lots of other problems!

.. when you’ve an understanding of how the markets work I doubt if you’ll ever let a position go in play ever again, unless.. no, I won’t say it

[Morbius]

Hi firlandsfarm.....I think you are beating yourself up too much about this if you don't mind me saying so. Being spoon fed someone's style and system isn't the way to go if all you do is copy it verbatim. If you can't figure Pete's style or anyone else's for that matter then devise your own but learn what sound trading principles and philosophy are first. All successful traders are "effectively inventing their own version of the wheel"...if you don't do that then you are replicating and that is not a recipe for success, or not long term success anyway. Investment Banks like Goldman Sachs for example highly value innovative thinking even if the trader isn't successful yet and has only ever lost money. Graduates with resumes with 2:1s and Masters often go straight into the bin in favour of someone with actual trading experience on many professional trading desks.

I will repeat Warren Buffet's famous quote, its harsh but very true......"first come the innovators, then come the imitators and finally come the idiots". Traders need to take a 30,000ft view of this and stand further away and see it as a bigger issue. I would much rather finance a trader who was learning and losing and trying to devise their own system and had failed with 20 bespoke systems of their own than one who straight from the get go was using someone else's well trodden path. The former has a larger potential capacity when done right. It would have a similar effect to too many people being in the same line of business in the same city.....the slice of the pie just gets smaller and smaller until there is no pie left. We all need a leg up sometimes, a bit like reaching for the dictionary when you can't be arsed to wrack your brain anymore to get the final answer in the crossword puzzle but reaching for the dictionary all the time isn't a good thing is it??

IMHO, my guess is that you aren't taking the proper lessons from your own experience because that has more value than perhaps you realise, it is after all a form of intellectual property. And numbers never change on a betting exchange at random, it just appears so. If a person couldn't read, the words and letters in a book would seem random but what you perceive to be "random" is in fact volatility that you are not translating correctly. As Pete said a while back, the market will trick you into doing certain things and you need to step back from that world.

Just my two penneth

Thanks for your two-penneth Morbius. For someone who doesn't know me at all you write as if you have known me all my life! So let me correct you on a few things. I wasn't beating myself up at all, I was telling it as I see it and I don't see it. I wasn't criticising me or anyone I was simply saying I don't see these patterns others claim to see and that's a fact.

I agree with your "don't try and copy" comment but I'm not trying nor wanting to copy anyone. There is a difference between learning and doing. You stand a better chance of being successful when 'doing' if you first take the trouble to learn. And part of the learning process is to understand what others find successful. So before 'doing' I tried to understand what others were doing and frankly I can't see it and no amount of insistence that I can see it will change that. To understand does not mean to copy.

I never said the numbers on the exchange move at random, I said they appear to move at random. If someone cannot see a pattern in movement then the alternative is that the movement appears random.

I was in the investment game all my life and am fully aware of GS and others and what they do but thank you for suggesting WB would call me an idiot!

I think you are making too much of this, it's a simple fact ... I cannot see any pattern in the way the numbers move. I'm happy with that and I'm happy with what I do and the returns I make. I prefer to let my automation rules do the work so I can enjoy my retirement life as I have for over 20 years.

Just accept that people have different skills. By insisting that others can trade if they look again you could be making yourself responsible for lots of people losing lots of money. There are enough that come and go from this forum with lighter pockets, I don't think we should create more. By all means we should offer help and support but we should not be saying 'anyone can do it'!

Just my t
two-penneth - Urban Dictionarywww.urbandictionary.com › define › term=two-penneth
Back. Loading... Top definition. two-penneth. Oldish English saying. When someone gives you his thoughts and views or opinion on what you should do about a ...

Just my two penn'orth

I read this response and was very close to not being bothered responding to it at all. Let me tell you something mate, on a personal level I couldn't give a flying monkey's whether you win millions trading or do it in except for the fact that winning it underlines to us all that we are not wasting our time. So a big congratulations for completely mis-reading and misrepresenting what I put. Read the length of that post, if you honestly think that I took my valuable time to answer your post to that length for any reason other than to help you then the problem isn't mine but yours and the way you think.

There are many people on this forum with ego's and agendas, I have neither but I do speak my mind otherwise what's the point to anyone coming onto a forum in the first place. To say that my comments would be responsible for people losing money is ridiculous. I was answering your post with minimal data about you as a person or your trading methods and so just like anybody else, I was clutching at straws but this is how we address all problems until we home in on what is relevant by a process of elimination and investigation. Getting spikey will not help your cause when all people are doing is trying to help you (unless they have an agenda). I am not connected with Peter and am not on first name terms with anybody on this forum and have no agenda other than to be on here to learn from people more experienced and to offer help where I can. I am on the same journey as you....I KNOW how hard it is and how much work has to be put in...read my posts, there's only around a 100 so it won't take long.

Nobody is responsible for losses except the trader, not me, not Peter, Derek, Kai or whoever else you care to mention. I am and have been a full time poker player, I know how vital it is to take responsibility for your own results, I have had that line of thinking drummed into me by the best in the business. Blaming other people is a pathetic cop out because unless it is because of some act of god, you are responsible for 99% of what happens in your life including trading. You choose who to listen to in life as in trading, you try to decipher the good from the crap just like you decide when to engage with the market.....you win and you lose and it is nobody else's fault. That's like saying that a credit card company is responsible for a person's debt.

If my comments about you were incorrect then that is simply because as the "helper" I am merely trying to approach the problem of throwing a lot of tennis balls in the air trying to find the problem as rapidly as possibly but I am trying to HELP...do you not see that???? Your comments about me on the other hand including coming back at me on the word "penneth" just screamed of a poor thinking process. If you can't take a few comments and react in that way then you really have no chance fella. Pack it in NOW!!!!! I have in the act of learning approached several people personally by PM on this forum, one of them has my personal phone number and we are speaking on a subject in private. This is how things are done, do you honestly think a tone like that gets you anywhere???? You're saying how easy I make this sound, are you serious??? There is nothing easy for anyone with your attitude in the same way that Peter mentioned about the thinking processes of certain people who attended his seminars who came with the same spikey attitudes when they happen to dislike what he said.

I'm not responding if you respond because there's no point

[CallumPerry]

I don't know how relevant this is to this thread...

[The Silk Run]

Is this an exercise in pissing people off ...

[Kai]

Is this an exercise in pissing people off ...

Probably just a bad day at the office

[spreadbetting]

........

I'm not responding if you respond because there's no point

I'd be long odds on you will.

[firlandsfarm]

I don't know how relevant this is to this thread...

Is this an exercise in pissing people off ...

Probably just a bad day at the office

I'm not responding if you respond because there's no point

I'd be long odds on you will.

My apologies to Callum and Silk Run for my part in pissing them off to the extent they felt the need to write ... and others also pissed off but who remained silent, I agree! And my thanks to Kai and Spreadbetting for introducing the humour which is always welcome

I'm sorry I allowed myself to be sucked in. There were plenty of 'warnings' in the "Loss Recovery Systems" thread but I failed to put 2 and 2 together. I Shouldn't have reacted as I did but you guys will not be aware that I had received similar such "you are doing everything wrong ... you will never make a profit ''doing that' ... you should be doing it this way etc." messages as PM's before the exchange of views here. In one of them he asked me to feed him data!! (I declined.) In private I can ignore or detour around them but it pissed me off when I saw similar in public! Nevertheless, I shouldn't have bitten in public.

As for Moribus I'm simply going to say "Get off my back man ... you don't know what skills I have and don't have, what I do, how I do it nor how successful I am therefore you are in no position to comment". Oh and I whole heartedly disagree completely with your last post to me but I see no point in making further comment, it will only be taken out of content and/or mis-directed as previous content evidences.

[jimibt]

... ok, back. have i missed anything??

[Euler]

I've completely lost track of what is happening on the thread now. It was a sort of Goat supportive idea thread, but seems to have gone off track?