Coronavirus - A pale horse,4 men and ....beer

A place to discuss anything.
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StellaBot
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:52 am

eg When there has been no wars

money builds up

health is nore affordable than war

work it out
SweetLyrics
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:57 pm

Sure, the money spent on the Iraq War (for example) could have gone into the NHS and saved many lives. However, I think that's a different discussion entirely to the one we are having. :)
StellaBot wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:11 pm
eg When there has been no wars

money builds up

health is nore affordable than war

work it out
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Derek27
Posts: 23476
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

SweetLyrics wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:09 pm
All I am saying is that there is such a thing as an acceptable risk. You can't insulate yourself from risk without taking such extreme measures that, ironically, there is a danger of even creating even greater risk.

Some people say, for example, that lives are more important than the economy. However, that argument breaks down when you consider that you need a healthy economy for the NHS to buy drugs. To put it crudely, if the economy ends up fucked because the government has shut down just about every business out there, then the NHS will be fucked too, and people will die.

Jeff
So much to not getting involved in this topic. :lol:

I know it's a difficult balancing act and one that requires scientific and mathematical consideration, but one of the problems is that many people are in one camp or the other without balancing health and the effect on the economy. But if this new strain is as highly contagious as they think drastic restrictions are essential. With 1000 people a day dying, that's 10,000 plus a day being bereaved, people are beginning to just think of them as numbers.
StellaBot
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:52 am

Your missing point
Try to think calmly
SweetLyrics
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:57 pm

I think that's a good point.

The government have said from the start that they are listening to the experts. I don't doubt that's the case. But are they inviting the right experts into the conversation, i.e. do they listen to economists as well as epidemiologists to get a balanced view of the short- and long- term effects of their policies? And are they asking the right questions? Are they asking merely 'What can do to minimise the number of people getting Covid?', or are they asking 'What can we do that will minimise the years of life lost?'.

I'm sceptical of the government's decisions (and very critical of a lot of their decision making, which can be inconsistent and sometimes comes across as being made on the basis of someone's gut feeling). However, I don't claim to know what the answer is (and I think many experts would privately admit that they don't, either).
Derek27 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:14 pm
Many people are in one camp or the other without balancing health and the effect on the economy.
SweetLyrics
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:57 pm

You're. :)

And I assure you I am calm - strangely, I'm enjoying my rare foray into the forum, although it does feel a bit weird! :lol:
StellaBot wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:17 pm
Your missing point
Try to think calmly
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alexmr2
Posts: 766
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:32 am

SweetLyrics wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:50 pm
A doctor dealing with Covid patients will see a lot of Covid patients.

An oncologist will see a lot of cancer patients.

Neither will be able to tell you about the extent of the illness they treat based purely on personal experience.
I agree with comments like this, most opinions seem to be sentimental or emotionally based hearsay which is unquantifiable.

I wish more people would watch unbiased journalism such as the first 5 minutes of this from today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSwDCBJWkk&

They look at the statistics with a much more methodical approach, and break down the mainstream media's reports which shows the propaganda being used
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alexmr2
Posts: 766
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:32 am

SweetLyrics wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:09 pm
All I am saying is that there is such a thing as an acceptable risk. You can't insulate yourself from risk without taking such extreme measures that, ironically, there is a danger of even creating even greater risk.

Some people say, for example, that lives are more important than the economy. However, that argument breaks down when you consider that you need a healthy economy for the NHS to buy drugs. To put it crudely, if the economy ends up fucked because the government has shut down just about every business out there, then the NHS will be fucked too, and people will die.

Jeff
I agree and find a paradox within there similar to trading.

The loss aversion of humans to try and save everyone will likely cause more OVERALL deaths and suffering the same way the loss aversion of a trading strategy will indadvertedly cause you to lose more OVERALL money.

It's very easy for people to make the emotional "oh so we just let the 0.3% die because they don't matter do we?" comment, but rationally the rewards of letting the 99% carry on whilst shielding the vulnerable (if they choose to) could be the better option in the long-term to minimise overall suffering and deaths
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

SweetLyrics wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:22 pm
You're. :)

And I assure you I am calm - strangely, I'm enjoying my rare foray into the forum, although it does feel a bit weird! :lol:
Conspiracy theories, personal attacks, insults, lizard people ... I can take all that

But correcting peoples grammar, tut tut
SweetLyrics
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:57 pm

Quite.

It's a bit like the trolley problem - https://theconversation.com/the-trolley ... five-57111.

'Imagine you are standing beside some tram tracks. In the distance, you spot a runaway trolley hurtling down the tracks towards five workers who cannot hear it coming. Even if they do spot it, they won’t be able to move out of the way in time.

As this disaster looms, you glance down and see a lever connected to the tracks. You realise that if you pull the lever, the tram will be diverted down a second set of tracks away from the five unsuspecting workers.

However, down this side track is one lone worker, just as oblivious as his colleagues.

So, would you pull the lever, leading to one death but saving five?'


You don't want anyone to die, but if death is unavoidable then you need to take the course of action which results in the least death.
alexmr2 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm
It's very easy for people to make the emotional "oh so we just let the 0.3% die because they don't matter do we?" comment, but rationally the rewards of letting the 99% carry on whilst shielding the vulnerable (if they choose to) could be the better option in the long-term to minimise overall suffering and deaths
StellaBot
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:52 am

Meet me ouside London Hospital
I will pay you money to work there?

Up for it?

Dont know whats worst for some to catch

Aids or Corona
Last edited by StellaBot on Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SweetLyrics
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:57 pm

OK, let's get this straight.

I live in Glasgow.

You want me to spend a day travelling down to London at my own expense (breaking the law which forbids non-essential travel from Scotland to England) to prove a point? Nah, I'll pass, if it's all the same! : :lol:
StellaBot wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:35 pm
Meet me ouside London Hospital
I will pay you money to work there?

Up for it?
StellaBot
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:52 am

Bailed out
Caught out

As Ann D said "wekest link"

BYE
SweetLyrics
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:57 pm

:lol:

OK, let's use an analogy.

Would I spend a day working on the flu ward if I hadn't had a flu vaccination? Nope!

Do I think we should have a lockdown each winter to prevent people dying from the flu (as happens every year)?

Nope, that would be total overkill.

There is no contradiction.
StellaBot wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:42 pm
Bailed out
Caught out

As Ann D said "wekest link"

BYE
StellaBot
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:52 am

Is there a vac for aids?
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