Australian racing

[Derek27]

Trading the second fav at Randwick worked quite well. Just wish Betfair were more generous with their chips.

Youve gotta find a way to make it work using lay only bets.

I suppose it might be worth looking into laying the field, but the beauty of Randwick and Rosehill is that the price moves up and down like a heartbeat. You need to back and lay to take full advantage.

[Wildly]

Trading the second fav at Randwick worked quite well. Just wish Betfair were more generous with their chips.

Youve gotta find a way to make it work using lay only bets.

That would likely lead to a tap on the shoulder from Betfair as it costs them. Those charges are there because of how Racing NSW charges.

[Anbell]

Trading the second fav at Randwick worked quite well. Just wish Betfair were more generous with their chips.

Youve gotta find a way to make it work using lay only bets.

That would likely lead to a tap on the shoulder from Betfair as it costs them. Those charges are there because of how Racing NSW charges.

No it wouldnt. The rule is 'pay X% for back bets above $Y' - if you dont have back bets over $Y, no problem.

[ShaunWhite]

No it wouldnt. The rule is 'pay X% for back bets above $Y' - if you dont have back bets over $Y, no problem.

Is that the state rule or Betfair's? And would 10 x $10 bets at the track be counted differently to the same on Betfair that would go down on paper as $100 total.

Or maybe Betfair have to collect TC on bets they needn't to cover Derek's clinical rule squeezing

[Derek27]

No it wouldnt. The rule is 'pay X% for back bets above $Y' - if you dont have back bets over $Y, no problem.

Is that the state rule or Betfair's? And would 10 x $10 bets at the track be counted differently to the same on Betfair that would go down on paper as $100 total.

Or maybe Betfair have to collect TC on bets they needn't to cover Derek's clinical rule squeezing

My understanding is that on course punters have to pay turnover charge. Betfair have to pay the same charge for back bets only but largely absorb most of it. I think TC for the big meetings is 3% but Betfair only charge customers 1.5%.

[Wildly]

No it wouldnt. The rule is 'pay X% for back bets above $Y' - if you dont have back bets over $Y, no problem.

Is that the state rule or Betfair's? And would 10 x $10 bets at the track be counted differently to the same on Betfair that would go down on paper as $100 total.

Or maybe Betfair have to collect TC on bets they needn't to cover Derek's clinical rule squeezing

My understanding is that on course punters have to pay turnover charge. Betfair have to pay the same charge for back bets only but largely absorb most of it. I think TC for the big meetings is 3% but Betfair only charge customers 1.5%.

More detail on it here
https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/help/acc ... er-charge/

The way Betfair charge on NSW racing is set based on turnover and margin per
"The Turnover Charge will only apply when punters have wagered in 1 or more RNSW markets with equal to or over $6,000 in back bet volume during the course of a particular week (Monday to Sunday GMT). In addition, a customer would have to pay less than 1.25% of their Back Bet Turnover in commission to Betfair"

My comment that Betfair will likely have issue with a lay only strategy (at low margin) even though not in breach of the charge condition, stems from Betfair calling me years ago when I was operating that type of strategy. I was not breaking any Betfair rule, but it was costing Betfair on NSW markets. They threatened to close my account or close my Australian wallet (shows how long ago it was)
The exact charge from Racing NSW and how Betfair charged customers would have been different then, but the impact still the same.

[Derek27]

Is that the state rule or Betfair's? And would 10 x $10 bets at the track be counted differently to the same on Betfair that would go down on paper as $100 total.

Or maybe Betfair have to collect TC on bets they needn't to cover Derek's clinical rule squeezing

My understanding is that on course punters have to pay turnover charge. Betfair have to pay the same charge for back bets only but largely absorb most of it. I think TC for the big meetings is 3% but Betfair only charge customers 1.5%.

More detail on it here
https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/help/acc ... er-charge/

The way Betfair charge on NSW racing is set based on turnover and margin per
"The Turnover Charge will only apply when punters have wagered in 1 or more RNSW markets with equal to or over $6,000 in back bet volume during the course of a particular week (Monday to Sunday GMT). In addition, a customer would have to pay less than 1.25% of their Back Bet Turnover in commission to Betfair"

My comment that Betfair will likely have issue with a lay only strategy (at low margin) even though not in breach of the charge condition, stems from Betfair calling me years ago when I was operating that type of strategy. I was not breaking any Betfair rule, but it was costing Betfair on NSW markets. They threatened to close my account or close my Australian wallet (shows how long ago it was)
The exact charge from Racing NSW and how Betfair charged customers would have been different then, but the impact still the same.

"Unfortunately, Racing NSW have a race field fee approach (the Turnover Model) where every “back bet” attracts a race field fee, even if a customer is trading and therefore generating very high levels of back bet volume relative to their eventual net customer winning position.

The Turnover Charge is aimed at customer activity which generates large volumes of back bets without providing Betfair with the corresponding revenue to cover the race field fees imposed."

That would suggest that NSW doesn't charge Betfair for lay bets so I can't see why under today's rules they would be concerned with lay bets. I also don't understand how NSW could possibly know how many back bets Betfair processed. Surely they could let a few big ones slip away.

[gazuty]

My understanding is that on course punters have to pay turnover charge. Betfair have to pay the same charge for back bets only but largely absorb most of it. I think TC for the big meetings is 3% but Betfair only charge customers 1.5%.

More detail on it here
https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/help/acc ... er-charge/

The way Betfair charge on NSW racing is set based on turnover and margin per
"The Turnover Charge will only apply when punters have wagered in 1 or more RNSW markets with equal to or over $6,000 in back bet volume during the course of a particular week (Monday to Sunday GMT). In addition, a customer would have to pay less than 1.25% of their Back Bet Turnover in commission to Betfair"

My comment that Betfair will likely have issue with a lay only strategy (at low margin) even though not in breach of the charge condition, stems from Betfair calling me years ago when I was operating that type of strategy. I was not breaking any Betfair rule, but it was costing Betfair on NSW markets. They threatened to close my account or close my Australian wallet (shows how long ago it was)
The exact charge from Racing NSW and how Betfair charged customers would have been different then, but the impact still the same.

"Unfortunately, Racing NSW have a race field fee approach (the Turnover Model) where every “back bet” attracts a race field fee, even if a customer is trading and therefore generating very high levels of back bet volume relative to their eventual net customer winning position.

The Turnover Charge is aimed at customer activity which generates large volumes of back bets without providing Betfair with the corresponding revenue to cover the race field fees imposed."

That would suggest that NSW doesn't charge Betfair for lay bets so I can't see why under today's rules they would be concerned with lay bets. I also don't understand how NSW could possibly know how many back bets Betfair processed. Surely they could let a few big ones slip away.

I’ve mentioned before ... if a person lays every horse bar one - that person has created a synthetic back bet. It is not that hard to do.

[Derek27]

I’ve mentioned before ... if a person lays every horse bar one - that person has created a synthetic back bet. It is not that hard to do.

It is, if there's a couple of big drifters.

[Anbell]

Is anyone having trouble accessing
TAB Trackside Radio
livestream
http://www.radio-new-zealand.co.nz/tab-trackside-radio

[rik]

yes not playing for me either

[TallblokeUK]

Please excuse me if this has been answered before, 900+ pages is a bit much to read at work, but :

I've been running a likely winner bot across hundred of races in the last 72 hours, looking through my Betfair P&L it seems that I lose out disproportionately on AUS races. Is there something fundamentally different there or could it be as simple as a time lag thing?

Whilst I get I am placing bets and lays on betfair data, could that be behind what the is really happening in Australia?

[ShaunWhite]

Whilst I get I am placing bets and lays on betfair data, could that be behind what the is really happening in Australia?

The live action is in Autralia but the price action isn't. As far as I've heard from watching the BF Australia YT channel, Aus traders usually have their hosting at AWS Dublin. They get lower latency and increased stability by being 200m from where most of the BF servers are than they get with a 12,000 mile connection.

The guys on here that live in Aus might know different so don't just take my word for it.

[TallblokeUK]

Whilst I get I am placing bets and lays on betfair data, could that be behind what the is really happening in Australia?

The live action is in Autralia but the price action isn't. As far as I've heard from watching the BF Australia YT channel, Aus traders usually have their hosting at AWS Dublin. They get lower latency and increased stability by being 200m from where most of the BF servers are than they get with a 12,000 mile connection.

The guys on here that live in Aus might know different so don't just take my word for it.

Yeah, that makes sense for the AUS traders, and backs up what I was thinking to some degree, the price action is going to be behind the live action and late challengers are more likely to confound you for in-running betting.

[ShaunWhite]

in-running betting.

There's also very little money around in-running. You'll be giving money away hand over fist if you're taking prices. Recent posts also give me the impression that the Aus guys have access to some pretty fast video feeds too.