Ukraine Crisis

[Euler]

You can't let yourself fall for conspiracy theories or else you will drive yourself nuts. The world is a complex place, beyond understanding at times. The sooner you understand that the quicker you will reach inner calm.

A lot of conspiracy theories are better constructed and run than the real world could ever manage. That's the main flaw with them.

I'm not happy with the forum being used for a pro war agenda of any sort. That's so out of touch with the current situation. So if you have those views, express them elsewhere.

[Trader Pat]

I'm not happy with the forum being used for a pro war agenda of any sort. That's so out of touch with the current situation. So if you have those views, express them elsewhere.

I think Alex and others have a contrarian agenda. Whatever the general consensus of the forum is on any grown up topic they take the other side of the argument, partly to be different and partly just to troll imo. Doesn't matter if its Russia invading Ukraine, Covid-19, Politics... we've been here before.

[Euler]

I get being contrarian, because that's generally what I am. I'm totally an advocate for critical thinking.

But there are limits!

[Trader Pat]

I get being contrarian, because that's generally what I am. I'm totally an advocate for critical thinking.

But there are limits!

I totally agree.

I don't think most of the counter argument they present can be classed as critical thinking. Most of it is just BS and conspiracy nonsense.

Hopefully this thread doesn't end up being locked like some others have.

[greenmark]

I get being contrarian, because that's generally what I am. I'm totally an advocate for critical thinking.

But there are limits!

I totally agree.

I don't think most of the counter argument they present can be classed as critical thinking. Most of it is just BS and conspiracy nonsense.

Hopefully this thread doesn't end up being locked like some others have.

It's pretty simple. Look at the title of the thread. Us squabbling is feeble in the face of what Ukrainians are facing right now.

[Kai]

I get being contrarian, because that's generally what I am. I'm totally an advocate for critical thinking.

But there are limits!

I totally agree.

I don't think most of the counter argument they present can be classed as critical thinking. Most of it is just BS and conspiracy nonsense.

Hopefully this thread doesn't end up being locked like some others have.

It's pretty simple. Look at the title of the thread. Us squabbling is feeble in the face of what Ukrainians are facing right now.

Lets not forget about the Russian people as well, a population of some 150 million is being "cancelled" everywhere and the ruble is officially in the mud. That is a serious amount of hurt that we are collectively putting on them and it's only the beginning.

[Euler]

You would think Sanctions would work in a normal country, but in one where views are heavily suppressed. You can't feel that it's going to be nothing but misery for the Russian people. Probably very little hope of an uprising unless it occurs within the ranks.

[Kai]

I'm not sure it will work in a country where corruption is so centralized. Not even sure we'll see people rioting in the streets like they did in the USA recently.

Seen some recent clips from the heart of Moscow that showcase the high level of security overall, so not even normal protests seem possible at some places.

[greenmark]

I totally agree.

I don't think most of the counter argument they present can be classed as critical thinking. Most of it is just BS and conspiracy nonsense.

Hopefully this thread doesn't end up being locked like some others have.

It's pretty simple. Look at the title of the thread. Us squabbling is feeble in the face of what Ukrainians are facing right now.

Lets not forget about the Russian people as well, a population of some 150 million is being "cancelled" everywhere and the ruble is officially in the mud. That is a serious amount of hurt that we are collectively putting on them and it's only the beginning.

Quite so. There are no winners here.

[Trader Pat]

No winners in this war but plenty of victims.

You'd have to think it's the beginning of the end for Putin though. Russia isn't North Korea, the protests will grow and grow and something will have to give sooner or later. When the sanctions really start to bite there'll have to be an uprising of some kind.

[Derek27]

I'm not sure it will work in a country where corruption is so centralized. Not even sure we'll see people rioting in the streets like they did in the USA recently.

Seen some recent clips from the heart of Moscow that showcase the high level of security overall, so not even normal protests seem possible at some places.

People often talk about sanctions not working without really defining their intended purpose. Putin's the sort of guy who will spend all his money first and worry about the bills later so sanctions will never stop him from doing what he wants. But they will cripple the economy and eventually his war machine.

[greenmark]

No winners in this war but plenty of victims.

You'd have to think it's the beginning of the end for Putin though. Russia isn't North Korea, the protests will grow and grow and something will have to give sooner or later. When the sanctions really start to bite there'll have to be an uprising of some kind.

I hope you're correct. I've given up on the idea that Putin will rethink and go for a less damaging alternative. Now it's damage limitation on a global scale. And I have to say, although I recognise the necessity to sanction Russia, if it hurts too much it might strengthen not weaken Putin.
And while we speculate, people are evacuating, hiding in basements, losing their lives. I'd better stop there in case my incandescent rage overtakes me.

[Big Bad Barney]

As a complete political and geographical ignoramus, this youtube video below seemed logical to me... I am sure there is a western bias in there though...it is...written for westerners...

Something to do with gas and oil...and Russia attempting to protecting it's economy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE

Everyone points the finger at Putin, but, surely he is not the only one making decisions?

[Kai]

Putin's the sort of guy who will spend all his money first and worry about the bills later so sanctions will never stop him from doing what he wants. But they will cripple the economy and eventually his war machine.

Yeah but is it really a war machine though? It looks more like a malnourished three-legged horse carriage that someone painted the hammer and sickle symbol on.

What's really going to cripple his so-called war machine are the incessant donations of war equipment to the local farming populace. According to reports the Russian army has already lost a QUARTER of their military equipment overall, that is an astonishing number. But I imagine some of it was lost from actual combat as well.

[Archery1969]

I reckon at some point Russia will bring up the bigger firepower and bombard all of Ukraine, when Zelensky things its all over he will blow up his 15 Nuclear powerstations, killing his own people yes but also killing 1/3 of the Russian army. If it happens then hopefully the weather/wind drives the fallout east over all of Russia.