Ukraine Crisis

[Derek27]

Putin claims Biden's allegation of war crimes is "unforgivable". Presumably massacring innocent women and children is forgivable.

[alexmr2]

Putin claims Biden's allegation of war crimes is "unforgivable". Presumably massacring innocent women and children is forgivable.

Yesterday Boris was in Saudi Arabia trying to strike an oil deal with a country that is doing exactly that in Yemen, so it must be forgivable

[greenmark]

Putin claims Biden's allegation of war crimes is "unforgivable". Presumably massacring innocent women and children is forgivable.

Yesterday Boris was in Saudi Arabia trying to strike an oil deal with a country that is doing exactly that in Yemen, so it must be forgivable

A very good point.Condemning one murderous dictator and cosying up to another is quite a feat of moral agility. Well said. We can can ony hope that unrelenting detente can solve both and other problems around the world.

[Derek27]

Putin claims Biden's allegation of war crimes is "unforgivable". Presumably massacring innocent women and children is forgivable.

Yesterday Boris was in Saudi Arabia trying to strike an oil deal with a country that is doing exactly that in Yemen, so it must be forgivable

A very good point.Condemning one murderous dictator and cosying up to another is quite a feat of moral agility. Well said. We can can ony hope that unrelenting detente can solve both and other problems around the world.

He only executed 80 odd people. I'd guess 20% of them were innocent but the other 80% were bad people.

[greenmark]

Yesterday Boris was in Saudi Arabia trying to strike an oil deal with a country that is doing exactly that in Yemen, so it must be forgivable

A very good point.Condemning one murderous dictator and cosying up to another is quite a feat of moral agility. Well said. We can can ony hope that unrelenting detente can solve both and other problems around the world.

He only executed 80 odd people. I'd guess 20% of them were innocent but the other 80% were bad people.

So why cosy up to him to secure oil to repair the shortfall sanctions against Russia will lead to.
That's the point alex was making. Slobber and slurp over Saudi when they have been killing Yemens and Saudi's with alacrity for some time.
You can't then point a finger at Putin.
Don't get me wrong Putin (or the pyramid of power under him) makes me sick. And no waffling about Ukraine being Neo-nazi convinces me.
Both regimes are dreadful.

[Trader Pat]

Politicians are bad but these people are even worse

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2022/0311 ... -analysis/

[Derek27]

A very good point.Condemning one murderous dictator and cosying up to another is quite a feat of moral agility. Well said. We can can ony hope that unrelenting detente can solve both and other problems around the world.

He only executed 80 odd people. I'd guess 20% of them were innocent but the other 80% were bad people.

So why cosy up to him to secure oil to repair the shortfall sanctions against Russia will lead to.
That's the point alex was making. Slobber and slurp over Saudi when they have been killing Yemens and Saudi's with alacrity for some time.
You can't then point a finger at Putin.
Don't get me wrong Putin (or the pyramid of power under him) makes me sick. And no waffling about Ukraine being Neo-nazi convinces me.
Both regimes are dreadful.

It's the lesser of the two evils. Without oil we're fucked.

[Derek27]

Politicians are bad but these people are even worse

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2022/0311 ... -analysis/

Should have bought shares before the war started.

[Trader Pat]

Politicians are bad but these people are even worse

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2022/0311 ... -analysis/

Should have bought shares before the war started.

Yep!

I would say how do these people sleep at night but I'm sure they sleep like babies.

[Big Bad Barney]

I would say how do these people sleep at night but I'm sure they sleep like babies.

How is selling arms any different than scalping the Melbourne cup?

IMO As long as it's passive...no advertising or coercion...there's no moral problem... the responsibility is 100% on the buyer...

I.e. If I build grenades, somebody notices and offers to buy them....no problem... but if I build grenades, put an add in the local trading post...that becomes a problem...

[Trader Pat]

I would say how do these people sleep at night but I'm sure they sleep like babies.

How is selling arms any different than scalping the Melbourne cup?

IMO As long as it's passive...no advertising or coercion...there's no moral problem... the responsibility is 100% on the buyer...

I.e. If I build grenades, somebody notices and offers to buy them....no problem... but if I build grenades, put an add in the local trading post...that becomes a problem...

It's not passive though. The arms industry spends millions lobbying politicians every year. And that's not just in the US but in the EU and other places too.

[Big Bad Barney]

I would say how do these people sleep at night but I'm sure they sleep like babies.

How is selling arms any different than scalping the Melbourne cup?

IMO As long as it's passive...no advertising or coercion...there's no moral problem... the responsibility is 100% on the buyer...

I.e. If I build grenades, somebody notices and offers to buy them....no problem... but if I build grenades, put an add in the local trading post...that becomes a problem...

It's not passive though. The arms industry spends millions lobbying politicians every year. And that's not just in the US but in the EU and other places too.

ic...well that's a problem! It's the lobbyists that should be up at night tossing and turning..."What am I doing with my life? Why did I go wrong and why aren't I doing something useful? Was it mom and dads fault? or did I do this?....am I really the centre of the universe and what is this thing called ego...truth, what is it? How do I attain it? It's certainly not going to work tomorrow! But....the money...."

[napshnap]

How is selling arms any different than scalping the Melbourne cup?

IMO As long as it's passive...no advertising or coercion...there's no moral problem... the responsibility is 100% on the buyer...

I.e. If I build grenades, somebody notices and offers to buy them....no problem... but if I build grenades, put an add in the local trading post...that becomes a problem...

It's not passive though. The arms industry spends millions lobbying politicians every year. And that's not just in the US but in the EU and other places too.

ic...well that's a problem! It's the lobbyists that should be up at night tossing and turning..."What am I doing with my life? Why did I go wrong and why aren't I doing something useful? Was it mom and dads fault? or did I do this?....am I really the centre of the universe and what is this thing called ego...truth, what is it? How do I attain it? It's certainly not going to work tomorrow! But....the money...."

"... but but the whole civilized world around convinces me that it's the good vs the bad, saints vs sinners, heroes vs villains. I just give heroes enough swords to defeat villains. And and I help local animal shelter and go to church regularly! zzzzz... zzzz..."

[Trader Pat]

How is selling arms any different than scalping the Melbourne cup?

IMO As long as it's passive...no advertising or coercion...there's no moral problem... the responsibility is 100% on the buyer...

I.e. If I build grenades, somebody notices and offers to buy them....no problem... but if I build grenades, put an add in the local trading post...that becomes a problem...

It's not passive though. The arms industry spends millions lobbying politicians every year. And that's not just in the US but in the EU and other places too.

ic...well that's a problem! It's the lobbyists that should be up at night tossing and turning..."What am I doing with my life? Why did I go wrong and why aren't I doing something useful? Was it mom and dads fault? or did I do this?....am I really the centre of the universe and what is this thing called ego...truth, what is it? How do I attain it? It's certainly not going to work tomorrow! But....the money...."

Lobbyists are the reason why big tobacco has never been truly held to account; why there'll never be agreement on sensible gun control legislation and why people in some parts of the US can't drink the water from their taps. And that's just America, this stuff goes on everywhere.

When you zoom out and look at the big picture of any war or conflict, there are always at least two actors with skin in the game directly or indirectly. In this case you have Russia and Ukraine, then a whole host of others indirectly who are supplying arms. At the top of the pyramid though are the arms companies who are facilitating the whole show. Its not so much a morality issue for me but more an example of rank hypocrisy. When Trump was president he had an acting Secretary of Defense Mark Esper who used to be chief lobbyist for Raytheon, one of the defense contractors mentioned in that article. And its not just Trump, other presidents have had lobbyists in their administration.

As long as these type of transactions are acceptable there will always be war, because its so profitable.

[Derek27]

The Russian ambassador to the UN is fast becoming my favourite comedian. He's back on the bats and musquitos.