Ukraine Crisis

[greenmark]

Putin has been in power for 23 years. Look were Russia is now. Once a "go to" place for global companies. Now on the edge of being a pariah state. It's beyond depressing. The man epiomises how clever and stupid a human can be.

Putin wants the former Soviet Union back under his control. For him Ukraine if the jewel in the crown, mainly odessa.

He probably never thought Ukraine would put up such a fight. He knows the west wont get directly involved unless a Nato country is attacked, in the meantime he will keep pushing and pushing. Even with all the sanctions Russia is probably making more money now that it did before due to oil and gas prices. He is busy doing deals with China, North Korea, India, Pakistain, Turkey and a number of African countries.

The UK and Europe are moaning about energy prices now, well see what happens next year, the year after and the one after that. Putin can be in it for the long haul. The UK and Europe cant be unless they going to be come very poor very quickly.

Even if you went the Labour idea route, the government could only cap energy prices for so long as the public expenditture to keep absorbing that would be huge and unaffordable.

Bascially, your stuffed unless you go my with idea to get rid of Putin asap. Otherwise there will be very dark times to come which will make the 1970s look and feel like a picnic.

While I will admire your efforts for diplomacy, you have to accept the fact that Putin won’t listen unless he is forced to the table.

Russia is a nuclear power but that does not give them the right to kill, murder and rape non combatant's. Nor does it give them the right to murder via the back door via energy destruction.

I am amazed you can’t see any compatriots to 1937 or if you prefer the balkans.

Putin is laughing at everyone because he knows he will press the button while the UK, Europe and the USA will not.

Tens of thousands of people will die this winter in the UK alone because of his actions.

If you can’t see what’s coming then humanity should just give up now.

Forget about your BF profit margins or waiting for the next Peter / Euler YouTube video, you will all be dead.

If you haven’t then watch Death on the Rock, executed with their hands in the air and rightly so. None of the persons executing them ever did or ever will be prosecuted anywhere, all given new identities, paid off, now overseas and again, rightly so.

At the height of the Northern Ireland troubles, the main commanders were well known but all residing across the border in EIRE. In 1989 that woman in Downing Street gave an order to the people in Hereford to cross the border and take them out. 4 were including their families but the order was later cancelled due to pressure from the USA. Again, none of those who took part will ever see a court room and rightly so.

My point, Putin will never listen to reason, so take him out now otherwise sooner or later you will have too.

There are similarities to the prelude to WW2.
But didn't that inform the whole world that maintaining military parity was essential.
The nuclear option helps no-one. But I'm certain it will stop Putin at any NATO border.
NATO isn't the soft touch the pre-war allies were. Ukraine have already proved that Russia may be a nuclear superpoer but in conventional conflict they're pretty rubbish. As I understand it due to this being classed as a special operation and not a declaration of war Russian reservists are refusing join in.
Wonder what will give first. Putin comes to his senses and tries to wriggle away with some semblance of dignity. He ploughs on without achieving the stated objectives and the people or military or political elite get p***ed off to the point that they remove him. Or Putin goes loopy 'cos the UK is supplying weapons and nukes London.

[Archery1969]

Putin wants the former Soviet Union back under his control. For him Ukraine if the jewel in the crown, mainly odessa.

He probably never thought Ukraine would put up such a fight. He knows the west wont get directly involved unless a Nato country is attacked, in the meantime he will keep pushing and pushing. Even with all the sanctions Russia is probably making more money now that it did before due to oil and gas prices. He is busy doing deals with China, North Korea, India, Pakistain, Turkey and a number of African countries.

The UK and Europe are moaning about energy prices now, well see what happens next year, the year after and the one after that. Putin can be in it for the long haul. The UK and Europe cant be unless they going to be come very poor very quickly.

Even if you went the Labour idea route, the government could only cap energy prices for so long as the public expenditture to keep absorbing that would be huge and unaffordable.

Bascially, your stuffed unless you go my with idea to get rid of Putin asap. Otherwise there will be very dark times to come which will make the 1970s look and feel like a picnic.

While I will admire your efforts for diplomacy, you have to accept the fact that Putin won’t listen unless he is forced to the table.

Russia is a nuclear power but that does not give them the right to kill, murder and rape non combatant's. Nor does it give them the right to murder via the back door via energy destruction.

I am amazed you can’t see any compatriots to 1937 or if you prefer the balkans.

Putin is laughing at everyone because he knows he will press the button while the UK, Europe and the USA will not.

Tens of thousands of people will die this winter in the UK alone because of his actions.

If you can’t see what’s coming then humanity should just give up now.

Forget about your BF profit margins or waiting for the next Peter / Euler YouTube video, you will all be dead.

If you haven’t then watch Death on the Rock, executed with their hands in the air and rightly so. None of the persons executing them ever did or ever will be prosecuted anywhere, all given new identities, paid off, now overseas and again, rightly so.

At the height of the Northern Ireland troubles, the main commanders were well known but all residing across the border in EIRE. In 1989 that woman in Downing Street gave an order to the people in Hereford to cross the border and take them out. 4 were including their families but the order was later cancelled due to pressure from the USA. Again, none of those who took part will ever see a court room and rightly so.

My point, Putin will never listen to reason, so take him out now otherwise sooner or later you will have too.

There are similarities to the prelude to WW2.
But didn't that inform the whole world that maintaining military parity was essential.
The nuclear option helps no-one. But I'm certain it will stop Putin at any NATO border.
NATO isn't the soft touch the pre-war allies were. Ukraine have already proved that Russia may be a nuclear superpoer but in conventional conflict they're pretty rubbish. As I understand it due to this being classed as a special operation and not a declaration of war Russian reservists are refusing join in.
Wonder what will give first. Putin comes to his senses and tries to wriggle away with some semblance of dignity. He ploughs on without achieving the stated objectives and the people or military or political elite get p***ed off to the point that they remove him. Or Putin goes loopy 'cos the UK is supplying weapons and nukes London.

Good points greenmark.

Putin is akin to a school bully. As we all know, you either back off and continued to be bullied or you standup to him. In 1937 nobody stood upto hitler, as a result he saw weakness and marched across Europe with France falling quickly.

I am on the south coast and get the bus allot, it stops at the blind hospital, holds 87 patients normally but currently holding 287 Ukraine soldiers who are seriously not of sound mind. Missing limbs, blind and god knows what’s going on in their heads.

But when I speak to them, happy as hell and waiting to go back. Not all of them are male, many females.

Putin disgusts me. Good job I will never be PM of the UK as I would launch everything we have against him, destroying the Kremlin, KGB in all countries, embassies, naval and airfields.

Sitting on a bus taking to someone with no arms and legs want my idea of a bus journey but it was for me a pleasure to speak to her.

Putin needs to go.

[sniffer66]

While I will admire your efforts for diplomacy, you have to accept the fact that Putin won’t listen unless he is forced to the table.

Russia is a nuclear power but that does not give them the right to kill, murder and rape non combatant's. Nor does it give them the right to murder via the back door via energy destruction.

I am amazed you can’t see any compatriots to 1937 or if you prefer the balkans.

Putin is laughing at everyone because he knows he will press the button while the UK, Europe and the USA will not.

Tens of thousands of people will die this winter in the UK alone because of his actions.

If you can’t see what’s coming then humanity should just give up now.

Forget about your BF profit margins or waiting for the next Peter / Euler YouTube video, you will all be dead.

If you haven’t then watch Death on the Rock, executed with their hands in the air and rightly so. None of the persons executing them ever did or ever will be prosecuted anywhere, all given new identities, paid off, now overseas and again, rightly so.

At the height of the Northern Ireland troubles, the main commanders were well known but all residing across the border in EIRE. In 1989 that woman in Downing Street gave an order to the people in Hereford to cross the border and take them out. 4 were including their families but the order was later cancelled due to pressure from the USA. Again, none of those who took part will ever see a court room and rightly so.

My point, Putin will never listen to reason, so take him out now otherwise sooner or later you will have too.

There are similarities to the prelude to WW2.
But didn't that inform the whole world that maintaining military parity was essential.
The nuclear option helps no-one. But I'm certain it will stop Putin at any NATO border.
NATO isn't the soft touch the pre-war allies were. Ukraine have already proved that Russia may be a nuclear superpoer but in conventional conflict they're pretty rubbish. As I understand it due to this being classed as a special operation and not a declaration of war Russian reservists are refusing join in.
Wonder what will give first. Putin comes to his senses and tries to wriggle away with some semblance of dignity. He ploughs on without achieving the stated objectives and the people or military or political elite get p***ed off to the point that they remove him. Or Putin goes loopy 'cos the UK is supplying weapons and nukes London.

Good points greenmark.

Putin is akin to a school bully. As we all know, you either back off and continued to be bullied or you standup to him. In 1937 nobody stood upto hitler, as a result he saw weakness and marched across Europe with France falling quickly.

I am on the south coast and get the bus allot, it stops at the blind hospital, holds 87 patients normally but currently holding 287 Ukraine soldiers who are seriously not of sound mind. Missing limbs, blind and god knows what’s going on in their heads.

But when I speak to them, happy as hell and waiting to go back. Not all of them are male, many females.

Putin disgusts me. Good job I will never be PM of the UK as I would launch everything we have against him, destroying the Kremlin, KGB in all countries, embassies, naval and airfields.

Sitting on a bus taking to someone with no arms and legs want my idea of a bus journey but it was for me a pleasure to speak to her.

Putin needs to go.

Must bring it home so much more when the consequences are in your face, as opposed to just published in the media. No longer a remote war.

[greenmark]

There are similarities to the prelude to WW2.
But didn't that inform the whole world that maintaining military parity was essential.
The nuclear option helps no-one. But I'm certain it will stop Putin at any NATO border.
NATO isn't the soft touch the pre-war allies were. Ukraine have already proved that Russia may be a nuclear superpoer but in conventional conflict they're pretty rubbish. As I understand it due to this being classed as a special operation and not a declaration of war Russian reservists are refusing join in.
Wonder what will give first. Putin comes to his senses and tries to wriggle away with some semblance of dignity. He ploughs on without achieving the stated objectives and the people or military or political elite get p***ed off to the point that they remove him. Or Putin goes loopy 'cos the UK is supplying weapons and nukes London.

Good points greenmark.

Putin is akin to a school bully. As we all know, you either back off and continued to be bullied or you standup to him. In 1937 nobody stood upto hitler, as a result he saw weakness and marched across Europe with France falling quickly.

I am on the south coast and get the bus allot, it stops at the blind hospital, holds 87 patients normally but currently holding 287 Ukraine soldiers who are seriously not of sound mind. Missing limbs, blind and god knows what’s going on in their heads.

But when I speak to them, happy as hell and waiting to go back. Not all of them are male, many females.

Putin disgusts me. Good job I will never be PM of the UK as I would launch everything we have against him, destroying the Kremlin, KGB in all countries, embassies, naval and airfields.

Sitting on a bus taking to someone with no arms and legs want my idea of a bus journey but it was for me a pleasure to speak to her.

Putin needs to go.

Must bring it home so much more when the consequences are in your face, as opposed to just published in the media. No longer a remote war.

Putin gave NATO wriggle room by making it a special operation.
NATO have given Putin wriggle room by only supplying specific weapons.
The scope for something to spill over into NATO territory is still there. I'm not sure what the situatiion would be if Ukraine strikes Russian territory. It's a dicey situation. And as Archery1969 has highlighted the human cost of Putin's baffling objectives is very high indeed.

[Archery1969]

Good points greenmark.

Putin is akin to a school bully. As we all know, you either back off and continued to be bullied or you standup to him. In 1937 nobody stood upto hitler, as a result he saw weakness and marched across Europe with France falling quickly.

I am on the south coast and get the bus allot, it stops at the blind hospital, holds 87 patients normally but currently holding 287 Ukraine soldiers who are seriously not of sound mind. Missing limbs, blind and god knows what’s going on in their heads.

But when I speak to them, happy as hell and waiting to go back. Not all of them are male, many females.

Putin disgusts me. Good job I will never be PM of the UK as I would launch everything we have against him, destroying the Kremlin, KGB in all countries, embassies, naval and airfields.

Sitting on a bus taking to someone with no arms and legs want my idea of a bus journey but it was for me a pleasure to speak to her.

Putin needs to go.

Must bring it home so much more when the consequences are in your face, as opposed to just published in the media. No longer a remote war.

Putin gave NATO wriggle room by making it a special operation.
NATO have given Putin wriggle room by only supplying specific weapons.
The scope for something to spill over into NATO territory is still there. I'm not sure what the situatiion would be if Ukraine strikes Russian territory. It's a dicey situation. And as Archery1969 has highlighted the human cost of Putin's baffling objectives is very high indeed.

What baffles me is the west has given allot of short range weapons to Ukraine but they need and want longer ranges ones. It’s like a game and the west is petrified of giving long range rockets. Why ? Talk a good game but limit the fallout ? That to me once again shows weakness.

Grow a pair of balls. If you don’t it will come back to haunt us all.

[greenmark]

Must bring it home so much more when the consequences are in your face, as opposed to just published in the media. No longer a remote war.

Putin gave NATO wriggle room by making it a special operation.
NATO have given Putin wriggle room by only supplying specific weapons.
The scope for something to spill over into NATO territory is still there. I'm not sure what the situatiion would be if Ukraine strikes Russian territory. It's a dicey situation. And as Archery1969 has highlighted the human cost of Putin's baffling objectives is very high indeed.

What baffles me is the west has given allot of short range weapons to Ukraine but they need and want longer ranges ones. It’s like a game and the west is petrified of giving long range rockets. Why ? Talk a good game but limit the fallout ? That to me once again shows weakness.

Grow a pair of balls. If you don’t it will come back to haunt us all.

Answer to that is obvious. We can't be seen to provide weapons that extend the conflict outside of Ukraine. Putin started this, but we have to be strong, support Ukraine, but not escalate the situation. I know you're desperate to test out your nuclear shelter but the rest of us are a bit undecided about the merits of a nuclear war.

[Archery1969]

Putin gave NATO wriggle room by making it a special operation.
NATO have given Putin wriggle room by only supplying specific weapons.
The scope for something to spill over into NATO territory is still there. I'm not sure what the situatiion would be if Ukraine strikes Russian territory. It's a dicey situation. And as Archery1969 has highlighted the human cost of Putin's baffling objectives is very high indeed.

What baffles me is the west has given allot of short range weapons to Ukraine but they need and want longer ranges ones. It’s like a game and the west is petrified of giving long range rockets. Why ? Talk a good game but limit the fallout ? That to me once again shows weakness.

Grow a pair of balls. If you don’t it will come back to haunt us all.

Answer to that is obvious. We can't be seen to provide weapons that extend the conflict outside of Ukraine. Putin started this, but we have to be strong, support Ukraine, but not escalate the situation. I know you're desperate to test out your nuclear shelter but the rest of us are a bit undecided about the merits of a nuclear war.

Not so much about my nuclear shelter More about not repeating history, although I do understand the concerns.

Strange, the USA is giving Taiwan $1 billion in military aid which has seriously pissed of China today. Plus Apple is shifting production to India, again pissing of China. Would those two things not seem as being provocative ?

Me bunker is now complete with latest non liquid fuel based generator. It’s rack based, I have 4 which is enough for 3 months. Space means I can add a further 8 to last awhile combined if need be.

Just need to test the bloody setup.

[greenmark]

What baffles me is the west has given allot of short range weapons to Ukraine but they need and want longer ranges ones. It’s like a game and the west is petrified of giving long range rockets. Why ? Talk a good game but limit the fallout ? That to me once again shows weakness.

Grow a pair of balls. If you don’t it will come back to haunt us all.

Answer to that is obvious. We can't be seen to provide weapons that extend the conflict outside of Ukraine. Putin started this, but we have to be strong, support Ukraine, but not escalate the situation. I know you're desperate to test out your nuclear shelter but the rest of us are a bit undecided about the merits of a nuclear war.

Not so much about my nuclear shelter More about not repeating history, although I do understand the concerns.

Strange, the USA is giving Taiwan $1 billion in military aid which has seriously pissed of China today. Plus Apple is shifting production to India, again pissing of China. Would those two things not seem as being provocative ?

Me bunker is now complete with latest non liquid fuel based generator. It’s rack based, I have 4 which is enough for 3 months. Space means I can add a further 8 to last awhile combined if need be.

Just need to test the bloody setup.

Testing is always good. Especially with an existentially critical system.
And you're right about China. If we lose our relationship with them we're screwed. We've become ridiculously dependent on them. But, blimey this was always and still is the point of commerce over violence. Trade, don't kill. Killing is both pointless and counterproductive and frankly - thick. The effort involved in any conflict could move mountains. We're on odd species. So damn clever. So poor at using that intelligence.

[Derek27]

That looks like a serious problem! Are they the pipelines supplying gas to Germany or are they electrical cables leaking oil?

If they're electrical cables connected to an oil tank, surely changing the seal or washer would fix it?

Capture.GIF

[Archery1969]

That looks like a serious problem! Are they the pipelines supplying gas to Germany or are they electrical cables leaking oil?

If they're electrical cables connected to an oil tank, surely changing the seal or washer would fix it?


Capture.GIF

I am not an electrical engineer or wiring expert but I have to say that looks like something out of Joe 90. Remember that series or am I showing my age. To me everything Russian made looks like sh!t.

[Archery1969]

Answer to that is obvious. We can't be seen to provide weapons that extend the conflict outside of Ukraine. Putin started this, but we have to be strong, support Ukraine, but not escalate the situation. I know you're desperate to test out your nuclear shelter but the rest of us are a bit undecided about the merits of a nuclear war.

Not so much about my nuclear shelter More about not repeating history, although I do understand the concerns.

Strange, the USA is giving Taiwan $1 billion in military aid which has seriously pissed of China today. Plus Apple is shifting production to India, again pissing of China. Would those two things not seem as being provocative ?

Me bunker is now complete with latest non liquid fuel based generator. It’s rack based, I have 4 which is enough for 3 months. Space means I can add a further 8 to last awhile combined if need be.

Just need to test the bloody setup.

Testing is always good. Especially with an existentially critical system.
And you're right about China. If we lose our relationship with them we're screwed. We've become ridiculously dependent on them. But, blimey this was always and still is the point of commerce over violence. Trade, don't kill. Killing is both pointless and counterproductive and frankly - thick. The effort involved in any conflict could move mountains. We're on odd species. So damn clever. So poor at using that intelligence.

I hope I am wrong but rumours are that Truss on Monday will make a speech saying China is a serious security risk to the west. Maybe it’s all cloak and daggers and why the USA made the announcement about Taiwan.

But, what happens if aChina says fcuk this and openly sides with Putin ?

I might be testing me bunker sooner than I planned.

[greenmark]

Not so much about my nuclear shelter More about not repeating history, although I do understand the concerns.

Strange, the USA is giving Taiwan $1 billion in military aid which has seriously pissed of China today. Plus Apple is shifting production to India, again pissing of China. Would those two things not seem as being provocative ?

Me bunker is now complete with latest non liquid fuel based generator. It’s rack based, I have 4 which is enough for 3 months. Space means I can add a further 8 to last awhile combined if need be.

Just need to test the bloody setup.

Testing is always good. Especially with an existentially critical system.
And you're right about China. If we lose our relationship with them we're screwed. We've become ridiculously dependent on them. But, blimey this was always and still is the point of commerce over violence. Trade, don't kill. Killing is both pointless and counterproductive and frankly - thick. The effort involved in any conflict could move mountains. We're on odd species. So damn clever. So poor at using that intelligence.

I hope I am wrong but rumours are that Truss on Monday will make a speech saying China is a serious security risk to the west. Maybe it’s all cloak and daggers and why the USA made the announcement about Taiwan.

But, what happens if aChina says fcuk this and openly sides with Putin ?

I might be testing me bunker sooner than I planned.

I would be astounded if China sides wit Putin. He's bonkers. They are intransigently pragmatic. Taiwan is a big problem. Hong Kong has been allowed to slip under China's control. And I do know people, both 2nd gen migrants to the UK and 1st gen migrants that went back. And they're mightily cheesed off about what China is doing.
Taiwan falling to China would leave the west naked for computer chips. And these facilities don't spring up easily. If we pull out of Taiwan it will be awful for the population and we will all suffer. Hell, you won't be able to ugrade your iphone!!!!

[Derek27]

That looks like a serious problem! Are they the pipelines supplying gas to Germany or are they electrical cables leaking oil?

If they're electrical cables connected to an oil tank, surely changing the seal or washer would fix it?


Capture.GIF

I am not an electrical engineer or wiring expert but I have to say that looks like something out of Joe 90. Remember that series or am I showing my age. To me everything Russian made looks like sh!t.

I vaguely remember Joe 90 but I was more of a Thunderbirds kid. I thought Lady Penelope was a bit of alright.

[Derek27]

I don't know why Putin's getting so much stick for not attending Gorbachev's funeral. Surely he wouldn't have been wanted there.

[Dublin_Flyer]

That looks like a serious problem! Are they the pipelines supplying gas to Germany or are they electrical cables leaking oil?

If they're electrical cables connected to an oil tank, surely changing the seal or washer would fix it?

Capture.GIF

Hard to tell, I've seen engineers/sparks coat long conduits with oil when they're pushing a sheath of cables through them so they don't get stuck. It could be oil residue dripping out when hot wires make it more runny.

Regarding China getting involved, if there were trade restrictions/limitations on China then the butterfly effect on Western health could be immense.

I've mentioned before that I work in a pharma plant, we get about 80% of our raw materials from China (15% India, the rest, whoever sells it). They're pretty complex chemicals to make in a country that has good quality control and health and safety standards.....so China supply most of them. Then real quality control begins once they're in the stages of production;then 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 stages maybe and then tabletted or sachet into the one you take daily or weekly for your heart or kidneys or whatever.

If those raw materials stop getting out, any generic medicines you or your family may take will skyrocket in price, due to lack of the regular raw materials in the process, or because the new suppliers can't make the raw material for a similar price, so the price increase carries all the way to the consumer. The tablet you or your parents might take for a heart or kidney condition could go from £15 a month to £100+ a month. If you're on 4 or 5 or 6 medications daily then the costs add up within month 1.

Already we had to stop production of a drug to treat (UTI) urinary tract infections during the pandemic, because isopropanol/iso propyl alcohol (IPA) is used as a solvent through much of our process, and when it tripled in price because it was in demand for hand sanitiser solutions, it wasn't financially viable to make the drug. UTI isn't a life threatening illness for the vast majority though, just means you have to deal with an unhappy missus with an itchy or sore hoo-ha for ages on end or until a regular antibiotic might sort it out....and you're getting no access to that hoo-ha until shes happy!

Now scale that up to people who need numerous drugs daily for heart/liver/kidney/lungs/pancreas/blood pressure/arthritis medication, plus any combination of these, and you're in a shitstorm of a short supply if every generic drug supplier increases in price 5fold or 6fold to cover their costs.

Good look to the next PM and NHS people that have to deal with that shitstorm.

Could stand outside your front door and clap for the NHS at 9pm on a Saturday, it was so ineffective last time, it won't reduce the price either this time! But people might feel better themselves before they die of a lack of life saving medication.

Going back on topic thread, Putins a horrible butt sniffer and probably smells of stale cabbage soaked in Brut. But I think it will take a von Stauffenburg or Georg Elser type effort for him to be taken out currently. Were such an effort to succeed, I'd be very wary of his successor, lest the unknown be worse than the known.