Ukraine Crisis

[Derek27]

This could be interpreted as a positive or negative.
Turkey's Erdogan: Russia's Putin willing to end war
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62965993

Does he mean overwhelming force or does he mean a negotiated settlement?
Can anyone see Putin handing back the occupied territory and Crimea?
Can anyone see Zelensky settling for anything less than that?

I think he will eventually pull his troops out and claim that Ukraine is now denazified and a better place than before the invasion. He can't carry on having his military annihilated and lose the war, he can only pull out and save face by claiming his delusional "goal" has been achieved.

[greenmark]

This could be interpreted as a positive or negative.
Turkey's Erdogan: Russia's Putin willing to end war
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62965993

Does he mean overwhelming force or does he mean a negotiated settlement?
Can anyone see Putin handing back the occupied territory and Crimea?
Can anyone see Zelensky settling for anything less than that?

I think he will eventually pull his troops out and claim that Ukraine is now denazified and a better place than before the invasion. He can't carry on having his military annihilated and lose the war, he can only pull out and save face by claiming his delusional "goal" has been achieved.

Hope you're right. The only certainty is the project has achieved nothing but misery at great cost. I think this proves how bad an idea it is to allow powerful people to gain greater and greater power. I personally find it bizarre that any individual wants absolute control. Maybe as a 14 year old. But for an adult it's just so obviously a bad idea. But I guess I'm in the centre of the spectrum of selfish lunacy, rather than the outer edges.

[jamesg46]

This could be interpreted as a positive or negative.
Turkey's Erdogan: Russia's Putin willing to end war
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62965993

Does he mean overwhelming force or does he mean a negotiated settlement?
Can anyone see Putin handing back the occupied territory and Crimea?
Can anyone see Zelensky settling for anything less than that?

I think he will eventually pull his troops out and claim that Ukraine is now denazified and a better place than before the invasion. He can't carry on having his military annihilated and lose the war, he can only pull out and save face by claiming his delusional "goal" has been achieved.

Hope you're right. The only certainty is the project has achieved nothing but misery at great cost. I think this proves how bad an idea it is to allow powerful people to gain greater and greater power. I personally find it bizarre that any individual wants absolute control. Maybe as a 14 year old. But for an adult it's just so obviously a bad idea. But I guess I'm in the centre of the spectrum of selfish lunacy, rather than the outer edges.

Kherson, Zaporozyhe, Donetsk & Lugansk will be holding referendums between 23rd & 27th of Sep for unification with Russia. That could be the start of the end… depending on how Ukraine react to losing 4 regions because of Russian placed heads of state.

Can’t imagine Zelensky will find it too easy explaining to the Ukrainian people that Putin came in & walked away with four Ukrainian regions… Putin might see that as the end, Zelensky & Ukraine probably not so much.

[Archery1969]

If those regions vote to become part of Russia, are attacked by Ukraine or western weapons then Putin can mobilise all personnel for War and use any weapons he likes under Russian law.

A dangerous game could be about to get even more dangerous depending on how Ukraine and the west handle the situation.

[jamesg46]

If those regions vote to become part of Russia, are attacked by Ukraine or western weapons then Putin can mobilise all personnel for War and use any weapons he likes under Russian law.

A dangerous game could be about to get even more dangerous depending on how Ukraine and the west handle the situation.

Exactly, could be Putins strategy… an attempt to spin perception, making it look like they’re wanting to end the war but in actuality it’s a step to further aggression based on Ukraines response.

[greenmark]

If those regions vote to become part of Russia, are attacked by Ukraine or western weapons then Putin can mobilise all personnel for War and use any weapons he likes under Russian law.

A dangerous game could be about to get even more dangerous depending on how Ukraine and the west handle the situation.

Exactly, could be Putins strategy… an attempt to spin perception, making it look like they’re wanting to end the war but in actuality it’s a step to further aggression based on Ukraines response.

Zelensky's best bet is cede the Donbas and Crimea. What happens to the Southern flank Mariupol to Odessa is more of an issue. Russia has wrecked the whole area but it's useful to Russia as a bullwark to connect Russia with Crimea and at the least annoy Ukraine ans the West. But also controls coastline. Damn sight more useful than the Donbas,

[Archery1969]

Putin is about to address Russia on state TV.

Pentagon:
"If this does transpire, the United States will never recognise Russia’s claims to any purportedly annexed parts of Ukraine."

France:
"French President Emmanuel Macron has condemned reports of planned referendums in occupied regions of Ukraine and accused Russia of seeking a return to an era of empires and colonies."

Nato:
"Nato's secretary general says "sham referendums have no legitimacy and do not change the nature of Russia’s war of aggression against Ukraine."

Russia:
"Meanwhile, in Moscow, Russia's lower house of parliament has approved a bill incorporating tough punishments for a number of crimes linked to wartime - including stiffer penalties for absconding from a unit during a period of mobilisation, martial law or wartime."

Archery:
"What does this all mean, well, I think the world is in for one hum dinger of a War."

[Derek27]

Putin is about to address Russia on state TV.

Pentagon:
"If this does transpire, the United States will never recognise Russia’s claims to any purportedly annexed parts of Ukraine."

France:
"French President Emmanuel Macron has condemned reports of planned referendums in occupied regions of Ukraine and accused Russia of seeking a return to an era of empires and colonies."

Nato:
"Nato's secretary general says "sham referendums have no legitimacy and do not change the nature of Russia’s war of aggression against Ukraine."

Russia:
"Meanwhile, in Moscow, Russia's lower house of parliament has approved a bill incorporating tough punishments for a number of crimes linked to wartime - including stiffer penalties for absconding from a unit during a period of mobilisation, martial law or wartime."

Archery:
"What does this all mean, well, I think the world is in for one hum dinger of a War."

Sounds like he's trying to legitimise the use of tactical nuclear weapons but it's nothing more than a bluff. Tactical nukes wouldn't be much use on the battlefield and he knows Russia will get annihilated if he crosses that line.

[Archery1969]

Putin is now correct about one thing.

Ukraine and the west will want to destroy him and Russia.

Start getting ready people.

I think i am sorted on the food front.

[Derek27]

Putin's really lost it now, even China's trying to calm things down.

[Kai]

Putin's really lost it now

Desperate times require desperate measures!

This video looks like something alexmr2 would make, but credit to zoomers for knowing their history

The death of Russia : https://youtu.be/d8-sffW0xT8?t=6

[Kai]

Would personally love to see a 5D chess move by Putin to let the referendums say "NO, not joining Russia" which could give him enough political leeway for an exit strategy

But unfortunately he clearly seems a fan of martingale type strategies

[Archery1969]

Putin, in his own mind, probably thinks he has nothing left to lose. That makes him even more dangerous. Information suggests there are 3 hardliners on his personal council that are pushing him more and more to make Russia strong and take back what they lost when the Berlin Wall fell.

If that’s true then he and they need to be stopped asap otherwise we will all be walking down a dangerous path.

Take the initiative now and take out their Satellites, listening posts around the world, Naval bases, Air bases, Submarines (They being tracked) and all land based military infrastructure.

[Euler]

This is a clear sign they have lost, this is an exit strategy. Consolidate gains and create an incentive not to give up those gains. Be interesting to see how it plays out.

But you could see years of conflict in these regions, even if Russia gets away with annexing them.

The west made a mistake with Crimea, they are not going to repeat that.

[Kai]

Last time they had a mobilization was in 1914 which lead to ridiculous losses and a revolution