What would you say to Betfair?

News, chat and debate about the Betfair betting exchange.
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jamesedwards
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:57 pm
jamesedwards wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:29 pm
do you think you would have been in trouble if your only income was from betting exchanges, like many of us here?
James, were we told you'd never be asked if you don't deposit? I've been working on that assumption and so reliant on this I've grown my account to over 20 grand to avoid the risk of a 100yr storm on the same day as a blue moon, 3 days in a row. I probably only need 3 or 4k but with rates as they are it might as well be sat there. :roll: Failure isn't an option, so what price peace of mind?
I was assuming Peter also doesn't deposit but of course that may well be an incorrect assumption.
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Euler
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Location: Bet Angel HQ

Had to on one account for the World Cup.
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Naffman
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Basically if your only income is betting exchanges you'll be limited to £100 p/m but if you show proof of other income then they'll raise it
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jamesedwards
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Naffman wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:31 pm
Basically if your only income is betting exchanges you'll be limited to £100 p/m but if you show proof of other income then they'll raise it
Is that £100 deposit per month?
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Naffman
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jamesedwards wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:40 pm
Naffman wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:31 pm
Basically if your only income is betting exchanges you'll be limited to £100 p/m but if you show proof of other income then they'll raise it
Is that £100 deposit per month?
Yes
Michael5482
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Naffman wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:28 pm
jamesedwards wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:40 pm
Naffman wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:31 pm
Basically if your only income is betting exchanges you'll be limited to £100 p/m but if you show proof of other income then they'll raise it
Is that £100 deposit per month?
Yes
Everything is just hear say, rumors and individuals (MP's, Anti-Gamblers mainly) expressing/demanding what they want. Until the white paper arrives no one knows. The government are in dire straits so wouldn't expect to see it anytime soon which isn't ideal for anybody
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Archangel
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Location: Polo Lounge, Beverly Hills Hotel

Another question is
"Should long term winning and losing accounts be subject to the same affordability checks?"

I have seen answers supporting both sides of this, but unlikely the GC will distinguish
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jimibt
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Archangel wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:23 pm
Another question is
"Should long term winning and losing accounts be subject to the same affordability checks?"

I have seen answers supporting both sides of this, but unlikely the GC will distinguish
totally agree. when i was a BF regular, I probably refreshed (re-funded) my account 3-4 times in the early days and then weekly pulled xx amount out and pushed x amount back in at month end. seemed at the time to be basic book keeping, but looks quite risky now based on anecdotal evidence.

as much maligned as it is (and deserves to be), crypto (and in particular, futures) is a rich eco-system with lots of volatility and turnover and will potentially face similar issues in the future. but for now, i'd definitely say that the lessons learnt trading BF have paid dividends when moving into this cowboy territory.. in short, there are other options - not all easy, and not all simple adaptations but they are out there.
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wearthefoxhat
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Archangel wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:27 pm
Sad times

He uses Betdaq and seems happy with it for now.

Some accounts get closed for business reasons. He has recently set up as a racecourse bookmaker, I wonder if that might have influenced Betfair's decision.
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wearthefoxhat
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Archangel wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:05 am
I am not sure how I feel about sending detailed personal financial information to Betfair, or any other bookmaker. Who would have access to this data? There is enough information there to do me a lot of harm if it got into the wrong hands, and these days, thats a real possibility. I have seen some some GDPR issues in my day job and can see how this information can be used to great effect.
+1

I haven't been asked as yet, I'd be inclined to refuse if they did and have to cash out.
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Euler
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Location: Bet Angel HQ

Naffman wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:28 pm
jamesedwards wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:40 pm
Naffman wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:31 pm
Basically if your only income is betting exchanges you'll be limited to £100 p/m but if you show proof of other income then they'll raise it
Is that £100 deposit per month?
Yes
I know loads of new customers who are on £500 a month without any income proofing. That's the base level.
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wearthefoxhat
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Naffman wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:28 pm
jamesedwards wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:40 pm
Naffman wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:31 pm
Basically if your only income is betting exchanges you'll be limited to £100 p/m but if you show proof of other income then they'll raise it
Is that £100 deposit per month?
Yes

I agree it's ridiculous.

Some poker players have achieved a "challenge" of starting with a small bank and made 100x their bankroll. (Some from a freeroll/bonus standing start) Recently Charlie Carrel has done it twice.

https://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/worl ... nds_92936/

I can't see any reason why a betfair trader couldn't do the same if they have the talent/ability. (£100 start)

Also, there was the old Maria Lay thread of £3000 to £100,000 (abeit a grey area in some parts). No reason why someone couldn't turn £300 into £10,000 using good bankroll management. (straight laying)

The main point is you don't need a huge tank to start with. Even if you deposited a £100 a month for 10 months, you have a £1k and any profit(s) made along the way, you can then scale up
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Euler
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Location: Bet Angel HQ

I reckon I would earn two or three times a starting bank of £100 in a week and again the week after.
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jimibt
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Location: Narnia

Euler wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:52 pm
I reckon I would earn two or three times a starting bank of £100 in a week and again the week after.
go for it!! ;)
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Crazyskier
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I find it Interesting that despite being deposit-limited as of last summer when I made a deposit after a blowing my bank (to £1k per month deposit - see viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26024&hilit=limit) I have at no point ever been asked to provide any documentation to Betfair whatsoever.

I was for decades a loss / at best break even player until a few years ago when I removed the emotion and used automation far more. Since then, I have consistently made small profits (with only one or two notable exceptions / errors on my part), generally averaging a few hundred pounds monthly and only withdrawing the surplus funds monthly, leaving a fixed £2k in the bank, thus not usually needing to deposit.

There certainly seems to be be an element of luck with which players are limited and / or need to provide documents; though as others have commented, I suspect it's mostly those who blow the balance then immediately deposit, thus in theory looking like an addicted 'loss chaser' some of whom, as Peter alludes to, bring enormous suffering to their families and rightly need help in managing their addiction problems.

I'd be interested to hear from full-timers or profitable traders that rarely or never deposit, yet have still been targeted by BF for documents or been imposed deposit limits?

CS
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