Bet Angel VPS

[RafterP]

Hi,

I'm moving apartment early next year and I'm considering opting for the VPS version of BA when I do. Currently I've got a very fast internet connection (UPC Fibre Optic which is 30MB) but the problem with this is that it only comes as part of a package which includes TV. I'd rather go with Sky but they currently dont offer broadband to Irish customers so I'm looking at maybe getting Sky tv and look for another ISP.

Would the VPS work as well with a lower end ISP say 3-4 MB as it would with a fibre optic connection? I know it says on the VPS page that it offers a massive speed improvement but is this dependant on the ISP?

It also says on the VPS page that in the event of a local internet connection failing, it will still be linked to Betfair as normal so does this mean that I could still place orders in the market even though my internet has gone down?

I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who currently uses the VPS and would love to know what kind of every day benefits it offers.

Thanks in advance

[Zenyatta]

I've got the VPS.

The main benefit is not really speed (not really that important for me as swing trader), but just saving local bandwidth and having a continous connection to Betfair - yes the programs continue to run on the remote server, even when your own computer isn't connected (If you have an Excel spreadsheet, it can continue to place orders into the market for you even when you are not connected). Also, a VPS has a variety of different uses: its a good thing to have quite apart from any betting, because it's connected to the net 24/7, which is good for computer buffs generally (for instance if you are a programmer, your programs can continue running on the remote server, you don't need your own computer to run them).

[JollyGreen]

The VPS simply cuts down the delay between the Betfair servers and your connection point. If you are in Ireland then it will give you quite an advantage over a normal ISP connection.

If your ISP provides anything >2mbps then you should have no problems. Below 2mbps I have seen the odd problem where the screen refresh lags and it acts poorly in terms of response due to the lack of bandwidth.

You must remember that if you lose your internet connection then you lose connection to the VPS unless you have a backup connection like a 3G modem on a laptop. The VPS will continue to run Bet Angel in the data centre but if you cannot connect then you cannot control it.

[andyfuller]

The VPS simply cuts down the delay between the Betfair servers and your connection point. If you are in Ireland then it will give you quite an advantage over a normal ISP connection.

Never been able to get my head around how it is better for normal manual trading?

Yes the VPS connects to Betfair quickly, I get that, but you are still reliant upon your home PC connecting to the VPS.

So you click your mouse at home that signal has to get sent to the VPS and then the VPS sends it to Betfair.

I would have thought that you can connect to Betfair from home just as quick as you can connect to the VPS from home?

I understand the advantage of placing a bot on the VPS as the bot just communicates with Betfair but doesn't need to communicate with your home.

So can someone explain the above as I used a VPS when I had issues a few years back connecting to Betfair but once that was fixed I found it quicker to just connect to Betfair direct from home rather than adding in another step

[PeterLe]

Andy
I think (maybe someone can confirm)..The data transferred between the VPS and Betfair may be for example 2mb/sec, whereas the data between the VPS and your home may only be £500K (it is only sending a "copy" of your remote screen, and other limited info).

Or maybe I'm talking rubbish! Anyone confirm??
Thanks
Peter

[JollyGreen]

The VPS simply cuts down the delay between the Betfair servers and your connection point. If you are in Ireland then it will give you quite an advantage over a normal ISP connection.

So can someone explain the above as I used a VPS when I had issues a few years back connecting to Betfair but once that was fixed I found it quicker to just connect to Betfair direct from home rather than adding in another step

Andy the only salient point is that this guy in in Ireland so it will be much quicker for him than a standard ISP connection. If you live in a decent broadband area with fast response times then the VPS may not be any quicker but sadly not everyone does live in those areas....yet! Let's hope they get faster response times to others that need them.

I run a VPS and a fibre optic connection from my home and I have to agree that my normal home connection is just as fast if not faster at times.

Peter Le is not far off in that only the refresh data is sent to your PC from the VPS. That means the main number crunching and data transfer to Betfair is done via a 100mbps synchronous connection and that is where the speed advantage kicks in.

It will also come down to personal preference and what you are used to seeing in terms of refresh rates etc.

[andyfuller]

I still struggle to see how it makes any difference where you are located as long as you have a respectable Broad Band speed. Considering the amount of data that is sent I would think 3-4mb connection is fine.

I understand that the VPS does the number crunching but any decent spec PC should be as fast crunching the numbers I would think, any difference I think you wouldn't even notice it would be so small.

As I understand it the important thing is the ping speed once you are up to a respectable download speed that is capable of handling the amount of data sent each time which imo 3-4mbs is.

So with the VPS being based in the same data centre as Betfair is (was) then surely the ping to either will just be as fast as you are still going down exactly the same wires etc from Ireland to London. That doesn't change whether you use a VPS or not, it is just you are sending less information but still at the same speed.

The only difference I can see is that you are sending/receiving less data which on say a 3G connection could be useful or on a low allowance Internet package but on any respectable Internet package you would see no difference.

I must be missing something as I just don't see the advantage unless you want to run a bot off the VPS.

[Euler]

I originally started using a VPS to get a decent speed connection to the UK when I wanted to trade from abroad. The refresh speed was dreadful in some locations but it was much more tradable using a VPS. Over time I've just ended up using a VPS most of the time as it makes my main trading screen portable between locations and devices.

Yes there is latency when you click, but the order routing has less hops via the VPS so if somebody clicks at the same time as me on a normal connection then my order will arrive before them. Only a minor difference manually but if you use the automated elements of Bet Angel that can be a big difference.

I've just got used now to having my main trading screen on the VPS and all supporting stuff in the background. Everybody has different needs and uses / non uses I guess. But we have quite a few customers on VPS's now.

[andyfuller]

I originally started using a VPS to get a decent speed connection to the UK when I wanted to trade from abroad. The refresh speed was dreadful in some locations but it was much more tradable using a VPS.

Yes I can see the advantage here where you are not guaranteed a decent internet speed but I think anything over 2mb is sufficient as the important thing is ping.

Yes there is latency when you click, but the order routing has less hops via the VPS so if somebody clicks at the same time as me on a normal connection then my order will arrive before them. Only a minor difference manually but if you use the automated elements of Bet Angel that can be a big difference.

Automated I can see the advantage as it goes VPS > BF > VPS

But manually how is it less hops? Surely it is more as you are now going:

Home > VPS > Betfair > VPS > Home

I would think the opposite and that if you are using a VPS and me on a home connection I would beat you every time. I just can't get my head around how doing more is faster as the click to place the bet travels at the same ping speed if it goes to the VPS or to BF direct. Only difference I can see is that if you send it to the VPS the VPS then has to compute it and send it on to BF and then BF have to send it back to the VPS that computes it and then sends it back to your home.

So how is it less hops and faster, I just can't get my head around it as everything tells me it has to be slower.

In my head I see it as going from my home down the M1 say to a petrol station (VPS) next to Betfair calling in there then go from there next door to Betfair where as I could just go straight to Betfair myself and not call in at the petrol station.

Both ways you have to still use the M1 (internet connection) but the latter you save time by not going to the Petrol Station (VPS).

If however you want to run a bot you can park it up at the Petrol Station (VPS) next door to BF and it then just has to nip next door (BF) to place a bet rather than having to go all the way back up and down the M1.

[Euler]

Less hops from the server to Betfair. If you go via broadband it is many more.

[andyfuller]

Less hops from the server to Betfair. If you go via broadband it is many more.

Yeah I get from the VPS to Betfair is less hops but you said it was less hops if you click at the same time as me both of us manually:

Yes there is latency when you click, but the order routing has less hops via the VPS so if somebody clicks at the same time as me on a normal connection then my order will arrive before them. Only a minor difference manually

If we are both in the same room on the same internet you on a VPS and me not I don't see how you save hops.

You go: Room > VPS > Betfair > VPS > Room

I go: Room > Betfair > Room

Your saying the internet routing from the room to the VPS and then on to Betfair then back to the VPS then back to the Room has less hops then the way the internet directs traffic from the room to Betfair and back to the room.

Just doesn't seem logical to me?

[RafterP]

Andy the only salient point is that this guy in in Ireland so it will be much quicker for him than a standard ISP connection. If you live in a decent broadband area with fast response times then the VPS may not be any quicker but sadly not everyone does live in those areas....yet! Let's hope they get faster response times to others that need them.

Would it be any quicker than the 30mb fibre optic connection I have right now though? And does me being in Ireland make a speed difference to being in the UK?

From what I can gather it would be a definite benefit if I was trading from abroad and maybe if I was running bots but trading manually as I am then it probably wouldnt make any difference?

My main question really is when I move apartment If I was to use normal broadband (not fibre optic) of say 4mb would the VPS make up for the shortfall or is 30mb fibre optic just overkill in the first place?

Thanks

[Euler]

I doubt you would get any advantage if you are working from a 30mb connection, other than the portability of it, or if you are using the automated functions to trigger bets.

[RafterP]

Would there be any advantage over using a 3-4mb broadband connection?

[Euler]

The server edition of Bet Angel is optimised for use on a high speed connection, so that may be of benefit for you. But I honestly can't answer if using a VPS will be of benefit for you or not so you may want to experiment and decide for yourself.