Gambling Review White Paper update

[Michael5482]

Just picked up on ITV Racing the BHA have launched a nationwide survey on proposed affordability checks. Link to complete below:

https://www.britishhorseracing.com/pres ... ty-checks/

[zippus]

After a poor day on the markets yesterday, I made my first Betfair deposit in months (I withdraw regularly and keep a fixed balance in the account). To my surprise, the account has been suspended and I'm having to provide lots of information regarding affordability. I'm still on chat to BF, which has taken up my entire morning, but I thought this comment / question was particularly amusing...


"No worries Over the last 365 days, you've also deposited a total of 24,692.06 with profit adding up to 2,272.45.

Whilst we appreciate that you are in profit, Can you tell me if these are affordable & sustainable amounts of deposits to you and would you be comfortable if these figures were losses?"

[Euler]

As though you are going to lose 100% of the time!

Let me know how you get on and what happens. I fancy running with one of these and seeing where we end up.

[zippus]

As though you are going to lose 100% of the time!

Let me know how you get on and what happens. I fancy running with one of these and seeing where we end up.

Ok so I've 'passed' and my account has been freed up with no changes required. I can PM you the transcript if you want. The conclusion summarized by BF is:

"To recap what we discussed you noted that:

* The recent cost of living crisis had no impact on your personal or financial circumstances.
* You are aware of the time spent on site and that you feel in full control of time spent on gambling.
* You are playing at an affordable level for yourself and that you are aware of these losses.
* The losses had no impact on you personally and financially and the amounts are within your financial means.
* You are aware of the Safer Gambling tools offered onsite, and you do not want any applied to your account."

It all seems like a bizarre waste of time for the customer and money for BF. Surely, there should be a rule that anyone in profit over a long period of time like 365 days is clearly not struggling with affordability...

[Bobajob]

After a poor day on the markets yesterday, I made my first Betfair deposit in months (I withdraw regularly and keep a fixed balance in the account). To my surprise, the account has been suspended and I'm having to provide lots of information regarding affordability. I'm still on chat to BF, which has taken up my entire morning, but I thought this comment / question was particularly amusing...


"No worries Over the last 365 days, you've also deposited a total of 24,692.06 with profit adding up to 2,272.45.

Whilst we appreciate that you are in profit, Can you tell me if these are affordable & sustainable amounts of deposits to you and would you be comfortable if these figures were losses?"

"After a poor day on the markets yesterday, I made my first Betfair deposit in months "

Could you expand on 'poor day' and 'deposit' amounts

[Kai]

Could you expand on 'poor day' and 'deposit' amounts

Thought he expanded plenty already? Leave the intrusive stuff to Betfair

[arbitrage16]

Could you expand on 'poor day' and 'deposit' amounts

Thought he expanded plenty already? Leave the intrusive stuff to Betfair

Though he could expand more, so maybe let him decide if he answers the question?

[zippus]

After a poor day on the markets yesterday, I made my first Betfair deposit in months (I withdraw regularly and keep a fixed balance in the account). To my surprise, the account has been suspended and I'm having to provide lots of information regarding affordability. I'm still on chat to BF, which has taken up my entire morning, but I thought this comment / question was particularly amusing...


"No worries Over the last 365 days, you've also deposited a total of 24,692.06 with profit adding up to 2,272.45.

Whilst we appreciate that you are in profit, Can you tell me if these are affordable & sustainable amounts of deposits to you and would you be comfortable if these figures were losses?"

"After a poor day on the markets yesterday, I made my first Betfair deposit in months "

Could you expand on 'poor day' and 'deposit' amounts

Sure. A 'poor day' was a total loss of around £3k and I then deposited a similar sum, however this is crucially within my pre-arranged BF budget. Clearly, it's a big number to lose in a day and it would be an issue if it happened regularly but my gambling / trading style does have lots of wins and losses (though very few wins yesterday). However, I'm still in profit after this hit when looking at the 90 and 365 day P&Ls.

[Euler]

Somebody I know lost about £3k in a day and didn't have any large losses to that point. Up about £50k in total, but didn't need to deposit and hasn't been approached.

So maybe it's deposits that are the key, or a loss and a deposit sets off a trigger somewhere.

[zippus]

Somebody I know lost about £3k in a day and didn't have any large losses to that point. Up about £50k in total, but didn't need to deposit and hasn't been approached.

So maybe it's deposits that are the key, or a loss and a deposit sets off a trigger somewhere.

Yes, I suspect it is in the deposits. The BF operator explicitly asked:

"Can you please explain to me the major spike in deposits with a 24 hour period?"

The strange thing is that I already have set up a pre-arranged budget and net deposit amount and these weren't breached.

[Derek27]

It's not ideal to have more than you need in your Betfair account, but it's surely better than re-depositing.

[zippus]

It's not ideal to have more than you need in your Betfair account, but it's surely better than re-depositing.

I tend to find having an arbitrary balance works for me. I withdraw amounts daily if I win and (usually) build the balance back gradually if my balance drops below this arbitrary amount. Yesterday was exceptionally poor, which is why I had to make my first deposit in months.

[Derek27]

It's not ideal to have more than you need in your Betfair account, but it's surely better than re-depositing.

I tend to find having an arbitrary balance works for me. I withdraw amounts daily if I win and (usually) build the balance back gradually if my balance drops below this arbitrary amount. Yesterday was exceptionally poor, which is why I had to make my first deposit in months.

Personally, I'd want a stake/balance ratio that can absorb several bad days or even weeks. It would have been fine a few years ago but now deposits are a no-no and need to be avoided whenever possible.

[zippus]

It's not ideal to have more than you need in your Betfair account, but it's surely better than re-depositing.

I tend to find having an arbitrary balance works for me. I withdraw amounts daily if I win and (usually) build the balance back gradually if my balance drops below this arbitrary amount. Yesterday was exceptionally poor, which is why I had to make my first deposit in months.

Personally, I'd want a stake/balance ratio that can absorb several bad days or even weeks. It would have been fine a few years ago but now deposits are a no-no and need to be avoided whenever possible.

I agree.

I think they should look at NET deposits, rather than GROSS deposits. For me, it's good discipline to withdraw regularly but BF don't seem to look at this side of the equation.

[Kai]

What about the overall exposure limit, would this limit be automatically raised along with the bank balance if you let profits accumulate instead of daily withdrawals etc?