Betfair Premium Charge

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BFDon
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:56 pm

I have a good understanding of the PC but have an issue and I’d really appreciate some input from others for clarity, particularly any historic accounts that are going since the introduction of the charge and have tracked their charges since:

1) Lifetime Premium Charges:

Is this figure the total amount of premium charges that has been debited from your account since the introduction? Essentially this figure started at 0 when they introduced the charge and each week whatever premium charges have been incurred have been added to this figure till the present day?

2) Lifetime Commission Generated:

Is this figure the total amount of commission generated by your activity since the opening of your account?

3) When moving up/down a band these two figures didn’t/shouldn’t change, the only way they would change is if BF made an error and manually changed them?

4) When moving up/down a band the only figure that should change is the ‘Other Charges’ figure which relates to topping up your figures to the relevant band based on your activity pre PC2

Thanks
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jamesedwards
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BFDon wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:40 pm

1) Lifetime Premium Charges:

Is this figure the total amount of premium charges that has been debited from your account since the introduction? Essentially this figure started at 0 when they introduced the charge and each week whatever premium charges have been incurred have been added to this figure till the present day?
If you're talking about the 'Premium Charges' figure shown under the lifetime section of your 'Premium Charges' page, then no, I don't think so. It's the value of premium charges that would have been paid if you had always paid at the rate your current rate, and used to demonstrate the net weekly PC charge calculation. So if you are on 40% PC2 then the lifetime charges shown will assume you have always paid PC at 40%, (which you won't have because PC1 is 20%).
BFDon wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:40 pm
2) Lifetime Commission Generated:

Is this figure the total amount of commission generated by your activity since the opening of your account?
This is the total lifetime 'Commission' assumed by Betfair, again, as part of demonstrating the weekly commission owed.

It is your;
[lifetime paid commission from all winning markets /2]
plus
[lifetime implied commission on losing markets /2].

Implied commission is losses *3%.
BFDon wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:40 pm
3) When moving up/down a band these two figures didn’t/shouldn’t change, the only way they would change is if BF made an error and manually changed them?

4) When moving up/down a band the only figure that should change is the ‘Other Charges’ figure which relates to topping up your figures to the relevant band based on your activity pre PC2
I think the lifetime 'Commission' won't change, but the lifetime 'Premium Charges' will change to reflect you new band as if it was this throughout your lifetime. I think 'Other Charges' is just for those who were once PC2 but now back to PC1, but I've never seen anything in this section so I'm not certain.
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jamesedwards
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eg if your gross lifetime profit was £500k and you moved from PC2 @ 40% to PC2 @ 50% then I think this is how it would look on the PC page. Only the 'Premium Charges' and 'Total Charges' figures would change.
Capture2.PNG
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Derek27
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jamesedwards wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:21 pm
eg if your gross lifetime profit was £500k and you moved from PC2 @ 40% to PC2 @ 50% then I think this is how it would look on the PC page. Only the 'Premium Charges' and 'Total Charges' figures would change.

Capture2.PNG
Wouldn't that additional £50K appear under other charges?

The tool tip says: These are charges that show what you would have paid, had you been paying the higher rate for all of your time as a Betfair user.
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jamesedwards
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Derek27 wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:51 pm
jamesedwards wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:21 pm
eg if your gross lifetime profit was £500k and you moved from PC2 @ 40% to PC2 @ 50% then I think this is how it would look on the PC page. Only the 'Premium Charges' and 'Total Charges' figures would change.

Capture2.PNG
Wouldn't that additional £50K appear under other charges?

The tool tip says: These are charges that show what you would have paid, had you been paying the higher rate for all of your time as a Betfair user.
Could well be. I always took that to mean if you moved from PC2 back down to PC1, but it's ambiguous I agree. I just managed to get my comm rate above 10% before I moved up to PC2 so I've only ever paid 40% and not sure how a move between tiers within PC2 is managed.
BFDon
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:56 pm

jamesedwards wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2023 4:08 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:51 pm
jamesedwards wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:21 pm
eg if your gross lifetime profit was £500k and you moved from PC2 @ 40% to PC2 @ 50% then I think this is how it would look on the PC page. Only the 'Premium Charges' and 'Total Charges' figures would change.

Capture2.PNG
Wouldn't that additional £50K appear under other charges?

The tool tip says: These are charges that show what you would have paid, had you been paying the higher rate for all of your time as a Betfair user.
Could well be. I always took that to mean if you moved from PC2 back down to PC1, but it's ambiguous I agree. I just managed to get my comm rate above 10% before I moved up to PC2 so I've only ever paid 40% and not sure how a move between tiers within PC2 is managed.
Ok this is interesting and perhaps different methods apply to accounts that were liable to PC2 from the start vs accounts which hit it/ were opened afterwards. Having checked an old breakdown statement it seems to me my 'top up' from Betfair was included in the 'Other Charges' section under my account. But perhaps there's an additional top up for activity between PC1/PC2 that was added to Lifetime PC Charges

In your case when you hit PC2 was the 'top up' added to your Lifetime Premium Charges Paid figure as in your example sheet. Is your 'Other Charges' figure 0? When did you open your account? Feel free to PM instead
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jamesedwards
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BFDon wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:41 pm

Ok this is interesting and perhaps different methods apply to accounts that were liable to PC2 from the start vs accounts which hit it/ were opened afterwards. Having checked an old breakdown statement it seems to me my 'top up' from Betfair was included in the 'Other Charges' section under my account. But perhaps there's an additional top up for activity between PC1/PC2 that was added to Lifetime PC Charges

In your case when you hit PC2 was the 'top up' added to your Lifetime Premium Charges Paid figure as in your example sheet. Is your 'Other Charges' figure 0? When did you open your account? Feel free to PM instead
My 'Other Charges' is zero, but I've only been a PC payer for four years, and a PC2 payer for a two. The 'top up' when I moved from PC to PC2 was added to my lifetime 'Premium Charges' figure.

Your hypothesis that the 'Other Charges' section is for older accounts who were already on PC when PC2 was launched makes sense to me. Especially given the terminology that Betfair use "...for all of your time as a Betfair user".
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Naffman
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jamesedwards wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:58 pm
BFDon wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:41 pm

Ok this is interesting and perhaps different methods apply to accounts that were liable to PC2 from the start vs accounts which hit it/ were opened afterwards. Having checked an old breakdown statement it seems to me my 'top up' from Betfair was included in the 'Other Charges' section under my account. But perhaps there's an additional top up for activity between PC1/PC2 that was added to Lifetime PC Charges

In your case when you hit PC2 was the 'top up' added to your Lifetime Premium Charges Paid figure as in your example sheet. Is your 'Other Charges' figure 0? When did you open your account? Feel free to PM instead
My 'Other Charges' is zero, but I've only been a PC payer for four years, and a PC2 payer for a two. The 'top up' when I moved from PC to PC2 was added to my lifetime 'Premium Charges' figure.

Your hypothesis that the 'Other Charges' section is for older accounts who were already on PC when PC2 was launched makes sense to me. Especially given the terminology that Betfair use "...for all of your time as a Betfair user".
Same, they just added the amount to Premium Charges to get it to equal 40%, I have 0 on other chargers too
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Derek27
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Location: UK

They add your £1K allowance to your PC total as well. Absolutely crazy, they should make it clear, this is how much you've paid, this is how much you haven't paid but have been credited for, rather than giving the impression they're thieving more than they actually are!
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Derek27
Posts: 23809
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Location: UK

Just a reminder for when you're doing your accounts, PC week now ends 01:00 Monday if you're in the UK. Made the mistake of adding a profit to next week when the market was settled before 1:00. :)
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The Silk Run
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Location: United Kingdom

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Derek27
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Location: UK

buyshirts wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 10:19 am
Morning im sure this sort of thread comes up every week and without even getting to the actual "Premium Charge"value the my commission paid seems to be a about 30% off (that is just adding up the comm on my winners).

Has anybody else had this problem?

Cheers
This is the dedicated thread for premium charge.

Mine was spot on today. In case you're not aware, PC takes into account implied commission, not commission paid on profits.

Implied commission is (commission paid + 3% of losses) / 2.
buyshirts
Posts: 417
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:37 pm

Thanks Derek i was just about to post my stupidty - After a very poor run i bounced out of the "Premium Charge" and today came back with a thud!.

Being hit with it again is painful and at 40% level it does make me question is it really worth it!
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